1000fps loads for 45colt

[jonp]

Is this for target or hunting? If target I'm using about 9gr of Unique under a 200gr boolit to get near 1,000fps I think as I don't have a chrono and I find it to be a nice plinking load although I generally run this with 7-7.5gr of Unique. I was not happy with how the 200gr shot from my Kahr so instead of melting them decided to shoot them up in my Blackhawk and was pleasantly surprised.

[Hickok]

Here are my results with two New Vaqueros, a 7 1/2" and a 4 5/8".

Ruger New Vaquero, 7 1/2" barrel, 45 Colt Remington Factory lead rnfp 255 gr. 855 fps.

Cast 255 RNFP/ 8gr./ Unique 864fps.

Ruger New Model Vaquero 4 5/8" Barrel.

Cast 255 RNFP/ 8 gr./ Unique 824 fps.

In an Old Model Vaquero, (the heavy frame model) with a 4 5/8" barrel, a cast 255gr. and 9.5 gr/Unique gave me 982 fps. I wouldn't shoot this load in the New Model Vaqueros, but that is just me.

A good 250-255 gr cast boolit going 850-900fps will get the job done on anything that needs shot with a revolver.

[9.3X62AL]

A good 250-255 gr cast boolit going 850-900fps will get the job done on anything that needs shot with a revolver.

^^ Truth ^^

When I was a new deputy sheriff in the late 1970s, I was hugely envious of an agency one county to the southwest that authorized their officers to carry the 45 Colt. Most of those were in S&W Model 25-5 variants with 4" barrels. As I gained knowledge of these revolvers, I came to know that the late 70s and early 80s S&W 45s usually had HUGE throats, but the caliber still was a kick-*** bad guy demotivator. I still think very highly of the 44 Special and 45 Colt as felon repellant; the 41 Magnum lead-bullet load was no slouch, either. If a caliber's diameter starts with a "4" or a "10", chances are it will be a decisive goblin stopper. As enthusiasts, we can bandy about all manner of formulae and predictions about what anchors malefactors, but all of those formulae operate by "squaring" some element of the ballistic equation--bullet weight, bullet velocity, or bullet diameter. We need to keep in mind that the only one of these values that actually and empirically "squares" itself is bullet diameter. Yes, I am a Hatcher believer. That said, how could I NOT like the 45 Colt?

[35 Whelen]

From loaddata.com (14,000 psi data for 45 Colt):

285

RCBS 45-270-SAA cast

Vihtavuori

VV-3N37

11.0

1,020

285

RCBS 45-270-SAA cast

Alliant

2400

16.0

987

260

Lyman 454424

Alliant

Unique

9.0

1,006

255

Lyman 454190

Hodgdon

HS-6

11.5

1,000

Source is various data from Handloader magazine

35W

[Larry Gibson]

The SAAMI MAP for the 45 Colt cartridge is 14,000 psi in deference to the older SSAs out there. The old "standard" load of 8.5 gr of Unique under the 454190 (255 gr RNFP) in Starline cases with Fed 150 primers runs 933 fps out of my 5.5" Uberti Colt SAA clone (Artillery Model). The measured psi (Oehler M43 using a Contender barrel) is 18,000 psi. I've shot lot's of those through that SAA and others over the years and thousands of such loads have been fired by others. I more needed?

Larry Gibson

[9.3X62AL]

Larry, 45 Colt throats--barrels--and bullets have been all over the map during the time it has been in production (141 years). I have slugged S&W Model 25-5 revolvers from the early 1980s where their throats spanned .456"-.457", but had .451" grooves. .451"-.452" bullets probably lost potential velocity AND accuracy under those circumstances. I sort of "idealized" my Built Backwards Bisley with its .448"-.449" throats and .452" grooves by honing the throats to .453"--running .454" bullets through them--and letting a subtle "funneling" take place as the bullets traverse their route through the revolver enroute to the target. I also discontinued use of the grossly undersized tungsten-carbide sizer die by RCBS, and went Old School with a steel sizing die that doesn't over-work the brass into Coke bottle copies. A .452" expander spud rounds out the upgrades for this caliber. Yes--the revolver shoots wonderfully--with bullet weights from 200 grain SWCs to 310 grain Lee LBT counterfeits.

[35 shooter]

Thanks for that info 35 whelen, i've found a lot of like loads in my manuals, but not all gave the psi. Especially it seems when it comes to unique. Also most loads were for 250 to 255 gr. boolits. I've been trying to research basically the same thing as the op but for a 298 gr. boolit in standard colt loads.

[Dale53]

9.3x62AL aka Deputy Al;

I pretty much the same thing with my Ruger SS Bisley Convertible. My undersize .45 Colt cylinder throats caused leading and inaccuracy in just a few shots. My .45 ACP cylinder wouldn't even let me chamber my cast SWC loads. However, after I reamed the throats of both cylinders to .4525" this thing became a tack driver with a variety of loads. I have settled on a Mihec mould casting the 45-270-SAA (285 grs) bullet sized .452", lubed with Carnauba Red ahead of 8.5 grs of Unique. That might be a bit heavy for an original Colt SAA. However, Hodgdon's web site shows this for SAAMI standard .45 Colt loads with a 260 gr bullet:
Dale53


Grs.

Vel. (ft/s)

Pressure

Grs.

Vel. (ft/s)

Pressure

Hodgdon

HS-6
.451"

1.595"

9.7

759
10,600 CUP

10.7

865
14,000 CUP

Hodgdon

CFE Pistol
.451"

1.595"

8.1

832
10,900 PSI

8.8

916
13,200 PSI

Hodgdon

Universal
.451"

1.595"

7.0

661
9,400 CUP

8.0

813
14,000 CUP

Hodgdon

HP-38
.451"

1.595"

6.5

722
12,000 CUP

7.1

787
14,000 CUP

Hodgdon

Titegroup
.451"

1.595"

5.5

661
8,300 CUP

6.3

797
12,500 CUP

D

[9.3X62AL]

There's that old nom de plume. I sold off the Uberti Cattleman in 45 Colt x 4-3/4" out of concern--probably over-drawn--that a habitual diet of 9.0 x Unique or 10.0 x Herco with 250-260 grain bullets would bend things. Ubertis are easily and economically replaceable, unlike Colt SAA/NF or New Service examples. From this abundance of caution came the purchase of the BisHawk, and from that purchase came the required completion of its construction. I dunno what the h--l Ruger was thinking about back then, or WTH I was thinking about when I sold the Pasta Colta. It was and is a fine shooter, and the guy I sold it to still has it.

[junkpile]

Thanks for that info 35 whelen, i've found a lot of like loads in my manuals, but not all gave the psi. Especially it seems when it comes to unique. Also most loads were for 250 to 255 gr. boolits. I've been trying to research basically the same thing as the op but for a 298 gr. boolit in standard colt loads.

This has been my primary problem - loads with unknown pressure. I just want to know what exactly I'm loading.

[35 Whelen]

It's going to be virtually impossible to know the pressure at which your loads are operating as there are simply too many variables that can changes pressures. I'm certain this is why Uberti and other manufacturers build their firearms with a certain "buffer" if you will, regarding strength.

Europe version of SAAMI known as CIP, has fairly stringent regulation with regards to proofing firearms:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commiss...Feu_Portatives

The above article states that proof loads for revolvers are loaded 30% higher than standard pressure loads which would be around 18,000 psi in the case of the 45 Colt. But in Uberti's "How It's Made" video, they state they proof their revolver with loads 3X over standard pressure or about 42,000 psi in the 45 Colt.

Regardless, I'm of the opinion that as long as you stay within published loading data with the 45 Colt, you're going to be OK. There's a post on here somewhere in which a gentleman claims to have fired 5000+ 250 gr. cast SWC's over 9.0 grs. of Unique out of a Uberti SA with absolutely no ill effects. I believe it and I wish I'd have bookmarked the post.

35W

[9.3X62AL]

35W, I seem to recall that post you refer to as well. I do know that in both the Uberti and the Ruger that extraction/ejection was unremarkable with fired cases that contained 255 grainers and 9.0 grains of Unique. As often as not, rotating the barrel skyward with gate open allowed the empties to fall free, and those that stuck only took a little tap on the ejector to dislodge. (Knocking on wood here), I have yet to cause harm to a firearm via excessive charging--and have no plans to embark on such a voyage. Using the Keith/Lyman #454424 in such a load might provide a bit more safety margin owing to slightly less bullet inside the case = slightly more powder room upon ignition.

All this notwithstanding.....the 45 Colt and its 250-260 grain bullets are one fine load, whether those bullets get 850 or 1000 FPS. Animated targets won't feel cheated of effect with either one.

[6bg6ga]

Some of the data from the handloaders magazine exceeds the data in my Lymans 49th edition. I can also recall some loads from older reloading manuals that have been re-listed in newer manuals at a lower maximum load. All I can say is this... proceed from the maximum loads listed in the newer manuals with caution watching for signs of excessive pressure. My line of thought is this.... if some of the maximum loads were considered ok in the older manuals they are probably still safe today but they may have been reduced to keep the beginner loader from trying to start loading at the max loads off the bat.

[35 Whelen]

Yesterday I ran across a column by Brian Pearce on Keith style bullets. In it he describes shooting a mule deer buck with a 45 Colt loaded with a 45-270 running a little over 900 fps. He shot the buck about 80 yds. and got complete penetration. What more could a fella want?

.35W

[44man]

Colt never advanced and so many clones are in question too. Colt still uses cold rolled iron in my opinion but even a new, small Ruger is so much stronger I see no reason you can't go over 1000 fps.

[robertbank]

To the OP I have used 9 gt of Unique under the SAECCO 200 gr Keith designed LSWC sized .452 out of my Berreta Stampede 4.75 gave me avg vel of 1017. Shot well. 7.1 gr of Titegroup under the same bullet gave me 1040 fps out of the same gun. Cases ejected well and there were no pressure signs. Use the loads at your own risk. Both loads performed well.

The same gun using 8.5 gr of Unique and a 260 gr LSWC Mountain mold I got from the late Felix Robins peaked at just over 1000 fps and averaged a hair under that speed.

If 8.5 gr of Unique under that bullet won't do the job I either got the wrong piece of iron in my hand or need faster feet.

Take Care

Bob

[35 Whelen]

Just walked in from doing a little 45 Colt shooting. I very recently received a Lee 2-cavity mould in 45-255 RF (which is a TOTAL piece of JUNK, but that's another story) and shot some of these bullets out of my 4 3/4" Uberti. Cast of COWW, the bullets dropped at close to 260 grs.

8.5 grs. Unique averaged 939 fps; e.s.- 28. Grouped really nice at 25 yds. at a little under 2" from a sitting position.
9.0 grs. Unique averaged 995 fps; e.s.- 50. Likewise grouped very well at 25 yds. shooting about 1 1/2" again from a sitting position. So there's your 1000 fps load!

Incidentally, with that last load, cases would drop from the chambers under their own weight in almost every case, with a couple needing a very light peck from the ejector rod to get them started after which they'd drop free.

35W

[Char-Gar]

I have shot allot of 45 Colt handloads over the years in allot of different handguns. The only load I have ever use that approached or went to 1,000 fps was 20/4227/255 Keith SWC. For the most part, I stay in the 800 to 900 fps range with 8.5/Unique or 6.5/Bulleye. Adding another 100 fps isn't going to change a darn thing about the effectiveness of the round on man, beast or target. That extra 100 fps will just added pressure, recoil, blast and wear and tear on the handgun and the shooter.

[6bg6ga]

I have shot allot of 45 Colt handloads over the years in allot of different handguns. The only load I have ever use that approached or went to 1,000 fps was 20/4227/255 Keith SWC. For the most part, I stay in the 800 to 900 fps range with 8.5/Unique or 6.5/Bulleye. Adding another 100 fps isn't going to change a darn thing about the effectiveness of the round on man, beast or target. That extra 100 fps will just added pressure, recoil, blast and wear and tear on the handgun and the shooter.

I'll have to agree with your logic on this and add one thing....sometimes the increased recoil to obtain the extra speed can result in decreased accuracy. I really don't think the extra 100fps is going to add that much to the knock down power. Be happy with something that can be handled and is potent enough to do the job.

[35 Whelen]

While I agree with the assertion that 1000 fps isn't always necessary, sometimes the heavier loads shoot better as was the case with the two loads I tried today. Also, if a fella is shooting HP's it's easier to attain expansion at higher velocities.
Since I shoot so much, what I try to do is have a hunting load that runs 1000 +/- and an everyday/practice load that runs 825-850 fps. This has worked out very well in my .44 Specials.

35W