I calculate I can cast and load light .38 Special cheaper than CCI .22LR prices here

[Bob Busetti]

I figure I cam load 30 carbine cheaper too, as well as the 45acp.

[Digital Dan]

Real men don't shoot bugs

Ya got me. Will put them out with the trash on Monday.

[RogerDat]

Real men don't shoot bugs

And some of us our eyes are not good enough to shoot bugs any more, even with a scope. Why I recall back in the day I could take a cricket or grasshopper at 50 yards over open iron sites. Sadly no longer possible. Should I start taking testosterone to get my manhood back?


I like shooting 22's as does my wife, same mechanics, minus the noise and recoil. Liked it better when ammo was cheaper and readily available. I learned to shoot with a 22, as did my daughter and 2 or 3 grandkids. That sort of odd spent cartridge smell that seems particular to the 22 will I hope always bring back fond memories.

[6bg6ga]

Certainly more fun to shoot a 380,9mm, 38/357, 44, 45 just to name a few. My current cost for lead ingots is still $1.21@lb primers at $35. @ 1K, and powder at $30 @lb so with those prices I figure the following roughly .012-.025 for powder primers at .035 and bullets at .02-.04 ea So according to my stock it costs me anywhere from 6.7 cents a round to 10 cents a round depending on the caliber.

Please don't come back at me telling me you have 30 year old lead that cost you $3.00 A 100 or 20 year old primers on your shelf that cost $1@100 or 20 year old powder that cost $12 What I listed is the current gun shop priced powder and primers in my area and lead ingots off ebay delivered to my door for $1.21 @lb.

[35remington]

It's a relevant point. If it's relevant to figure the price for powder and lead and primers you bought forty years ago, it's relevant to mention the cost of 22's I haven't shot up to compare with your "old" prices for powder and primers.

Otherwise I could say I'm shooting old stuff too....like the 22's I bought in the late seventies at fifty cents for fifty (I do have some left). Ergo.....my 22's are still cheaper to shoot than your old primers and powder as they were a penny each and I'm leaving out nothing about their cost save the gas to get them. Handloaders leave out a lot when coming up for a "price" per round......ignoring the eventual brass replacement in many instances.....cost of loading equipment.....and time. Time may have value as well depending upon what else you're doing to make up for its loss.

And as for the "free brass" part.....I'd acknowledge its relevance with 223's and 9mm's as those are on the ground everywhere. 22 Hornets and 38's (revolver shooters pocket their brass) and 243's and other popular deer calibers? Not so much. Save for a few commonly chucked on the ground calibers, nobody can say ALL their brass is free. I'm a frequent range shooter myself, and if I was waiting on that found on the ground to comprise my supply in most calibers I'd be waiting a long, long time.....and not doing much loading of recovered brass in between range sessions with the very few brass I have found. The rounds shot at the range with "found or free" brass would be very few. Counting on "finding" or "getting for free" 35 Remington brass, for instance, would mean I wouldn't shoot at all!

Point is, one can't compare "old" prices of powder and primers while completely ignoring brass cost to new prices of .22's without bringing up the new cost of primers and powder and brass to replace the ones you shot up. Yes, I know, your brass lasts "forever" except that it dies eventually, and it cost most of you something.

Replacement costs and the inflationary tendency of the passage of time are always relevant in coming up with a current cost, for production of ammo or anything else. Otherwise, an unfired Marlin 336 bought new and never shot and in perfect condition would be only worth the 50 dollars you paid for it in 1963. Trouble is, we know it's worth quite a bit more than that. Same for those primers you bought in the seventies....they're worth more than that now. That's how current costs of production are figured, with the emphasis on current. Current does not mean looking into the past.....it means giving all the inputs to present day production their correct time adjusted value.

It's really easy to flunk Economics 101 when attempting to come up with estimated costs for production of ammo.

[cwheel]

Just bought the 3 box limit of 22's at Sportsman's last Friday. Cost was $5 for a box of 50 CCI standard velocity. At ten cents a round there aren't any handgun rounds I cast and load for that will cost that much. I can cast and load 38 spcl. .357, 45 acp for well under the ten cent mark. I guess the only way most will get to compare will be if they don't cast or reload, they pay the price or go without. This administration hasn't been able to do much with gun control in congress, but sure have caused the ammo supply to dry up. Less of a ammo supply = less working firearms I guess. I think us reloaders and casters are the next big target, and we have seen our powder, primer supplies drying up fast as well.
Chris

[Digital Dan]

Economic theory is fine I suppose but it's sort of easy to obscure reality with theory and get lost in the weeds sometimes. Problems show up when facts get confused with cherry picked numbers.
One way to make a point is to use a price based on Remington Thunderbolts, and that may work for some but fall on deaf ears for a fella buying select match ammo for his RF shooting pleasure. It might not mean much to a fella that really did but a truck load of primers/powder/lead a long time ago. If you want to adjust that cost for inflation be my guest, but let's not be vague about the actual adjusted price.

Where I sit is fairly simple to figure. I shoot 3 brand/styles of .22rf ammo. In brick quantity the cheapest is .12/rd + shipping IF I can find it. That is today's cost per online advertising. I recently purchased several varieties of powder in 4 or 5# lots that cost only a small amount over $22/# including shipping. Primers locally in 1,000 quantity at $30 and change. Real world costs, right here, right now. So, my reality is that reloading small cap/small bore cartridges with cast is cheaper than buying .22 rf ammo, even based on high cost assumption for lead. Yes, I buy lead. Most recently I purchased 300# of wheel weights for $60. Another fellow sold me 200# of Linotype for $200. Pure lead inventory averaged about $125/100 incl. shipping. Do the math in that for a .25-20 shooting 6 grains of powder and a 70 grain bullet. Yes, brass wears out eventually, trouble is I don't know when eventually is for some of it. I have more than a few styles of cartridge brass that have been around for 15 reload cycles. Just because someone fries a batch of brass in 3-4 reloading cycles does not mean we all do. Mild loads, minimal loading stress coupled with case mouth annealing can make it age quite gracefully.

And I know this isn't fair, but you can purchase black powder, right now, for $15.40/# incl shipping in 25# lots. And a roundball of .32 caliber weighs about 60 grains. It will fly with a 10 grain boot in the backside...even from a flintlock. Increase ball weight to 80 grains if the gun is a .36 caliber.

That would be my perspective.

[35remington]

No argument with realistic accounting. The trouble is when using 30 to 40 year old pricing.

Maybe all those guys who still have zillions of primers they got for 5 bucks per thou and powder they purchased for 1.50 a pound would care to sell those to me for those same prices today (after all....that's what they've got in them......right?).

I didn't think so. It makes my point.

We all can also agree .22 prices have greatly inflated lately, and prices aren't representative of even inflationary pricing over time, but rather are indicative of shortage and panic buying realities. Someday it'll come back down in price, but not to pre panic levels.

Primers, powder, and brass won't come back to pre panic levels either. That must be acknowledged as well.

My other point is that figuring nothing for brass costs and the other costs of production is clearly wrong. I guess if you don't feel like including other costs, it costs nothing for them? We also know that isn't so, and it isn't an arguable point.

[MT Gianni]

We all can also agree .22 prices have greatly inflated lately, and prices aren't representative of even inflationary pricing over time, but rather are indicative of shortage and panic buying realities. Someday it'll come back down in price, but not to pre panic levels.

Primers, powder, and brass won't come back to pre panic levels either. That must be acknowledged as well.

My other point is that figuring nothing for brass costs and the other costs of production is clearly wrong. I guess if you don't feel like including other costs, it costs nothing for them? We also know that isn't so, and it isn't an arguable point.

Yet with cast 20 firings is not out of line for brass cases. We should not use current pricing for that but our acquisition costs. 100 rds for $10 and 2000 firings adds some to our reloads but we do not figure the time spent in finding 22, fuel cost to get to it and the potential savings from recycling our brass. My company includes in an annual statement the cost of keeping me as an employee. It includes the amortization of the building that HR uses among other things. I believe those cost are there it is an unrealistic statement. We should probably ask if we would rather shoot 22 lr at a ground squirrel or a 100 gr bullet at a higher velocity.

[35remington]

At current pricing or even past pricing for brass twenty firings would add a cost of production of about a penny a shot.....yet somehow it escapes everyone's attention to mention this is also a production cost.

Powder, primers and bullets used in production are not depreciable assets but rather increase in value with time if they are not utilized. Otherwise I would gladly pay you 70's prices for your component stash. You'd be a darn fool to accept such an offer from me. Production items that are used in production cannot be sheltered from the effects of inflation if they are to be used. This applies if they are sold or used for their intended purpose.

[Digital Dan]

1998 production WW power point LR, a box in my hand. $1.99/box of 50. .04 each. Who knows where the prices will settle but that price will not be seen again.

[fredj338]

Casting my own I can shoot any handgun caliber cheaper than I can shoot 22lr in todays market: 3c primer + 1c powder, $2/50 is cheap shooting. Even if I buy the lead @ $1/#, my 45acp only cost me $3.50/50, a little more than what 22lr are running today!

[abqcaster]

I'll stand by my claim. My 9mm loads cost me 5-5.5 cents a round to make (<1¢/bullet, 1.3¢ powder, and 3¢ primer) with currently purchased material, including shipping. I'm not counting brass because a) I've gotten it for free, b) I've paid next to nothing for it and c) I've reused it several times. Lately I've paid between 10 and 20 cents per 22lr round.
I don't count my labor, because for me its therapy, and if we counted the cost of therapy sessions we'd be looking at immeasurable savings...

[**oneshot**]

It's most of the reason I started making 22lr vel hornet loads. 2.7grs of powder goes along way and that little boolit is easy on my lead supply. Push through sizer and tumble lube makes them quicker to make up also.

[Motor]

Started doing the math in about 1976. I don't think it was possible until recently. Free lead does help though.
BTW: 22lr will be on the shelves for under $3 for 50 sunday morning. Don't ask.

Yeah I'm quoting my own post.

Up date: Dick's sporting good has or maybe had by now, 22lr ammo. It is American Eagle (a Federal brand) and has their 38gr copper clad HP bullet. They were $2.49 a box around these parts. BUT: The box only has 40 rounds in it !!!!!!!!

I think that's at least a little decieving. I know people who bought some and did not know this.
It's like going to the store and buying eggs and then finding out there is only 10 per carton not 12. 22 ammo has been sold in 50rd boxes for how long, a hundred years? What's worse is to think they spent the money to re-design the pakaging. Gimme a freekin break !!!!!!!!! :takinWizn em.

[MT Gianni]

American Eagle has had 40/400 since its inception in the late 90's, IIRC.

[dougader]

Aside from the pricing, I've been shooting a lot more 32 mag than 22 LR lately just because I don't want to deplete my reserves of 22 LR ammo.

With a 90 grain Lee TL boolit and 2.5 - 3.0 grains of 231 a pound goes a long way.

[Motor]

American Eagle has had 40/400 since its inception in the late 90's, IIRC.

You may be correct but I don't ever recall that being the case.

[rintinglen]

American Eagle has had 40/400 since its inception in the late 90's, IIRC.

You recall correctly, Sir.
I bought a sleeve of it in 2002 when I bought my Browning Nomad. I was smiling and happy at saving a buck a sleeve over the cost of Winchester Wildcats, until I realized it was 6 of one, but not half a dozen of the other. I still have that sleeve somewhere, partially depleted.

[tuckerdog]

.222 rem in rem 788, 44grn rn lyman, 3.5grn unique, accurate and cheap. seems to be between 22mag and lr.