1885 in .356 win? Feasable?

[oldred]

Well EDG (BTW does that stand Expensive Distinguished Guns) 63-64 was a long time ago. That's about Winchester made so many improvements. The push feed post 64 model 70's feed a lot better than the pre 64. The post 64 model 94 once a few bugs were worked out is superior to the pre 64. My model 1300 winchester was an all round better gun than my model 12. My son has a BPS which he loves and is death on squirrels. I think the bottom ejector pumps are great if you like pumps. I think competitive shooting has had some deleterious effects on just plain shooting. Some things I really don't like are:
Heavy barrels
Large capacity magazines
Scopes
Light triggers
Star Wars stocks
ETC
If I want to shoot a 45 I will use my son's Glock. How do you know that a 78 is 4X strong as a Handirifle? Lots of people have published good reviews of the Handirifle. As far as strength goes the only true way that I know to test that is to shoot a gun to destruction with increasing loads. P.O. Ackley did this with some suurprising results

You are still missing the point, the new Handies are really strong and there's no doubt about it, I have a friend that regularly shoots a 45/70 using Ruger no.1 load data as does lots of other people, and accuracy is at least acceptable but that's about it. There is just so much more to owning and shooting a high class rifle or shotgun than just throwing lead out of the darn thing and if that's over your head you will probably never understand so just shoot your guns and enjoy them, if it suits you then fine. The bottom line is that while maybe you can't quite appreciate the difference between a fine looking accurate and well handling firearm as opposed to the bottom of the barrel utility grades the fact is most folks can and to them it's WELL worth the difference, there's a heck of a lot more to it than just the money difference even with strength and accuracy being the (nearly!) same. The cheapest is not always the bestest!!!!!

[.45Cole]

Don-I didn't know that a 1885 could (easily?) be made to fire rimless cases. I know that the B78 does, but i was essentially looking for something along my Browning 1885 low wall in a good .35 caliber. Rimmed cases are a little nicer to have in a loop belt because they won't work their way out. After looking into .356 brass, I think I'll have to come up with another cartridge, maybe a .358.

I used cheapies and they work well, you don't worry about them and if you want to spray paint them pink, then do it. Repaint it camo next week. But after I drop for a nice lapped barrel, and the workmanship of a good chamber, I'm only out a little more on a good action. The nicer actions were made well, with a good design that can be easily modified.

[Don McDowell]

I've carried rimless bottle neck cartridge in a looped cartridge belt and never lost a one.
The B78 was/is nothing more than an 85 without the tang, and chambered in modern wonder cartridges. All one has to do is change the extractor ( see the new production rifles in 243,260 etc.)
If I were thinking of something in a lowall, I'ld be more apt to go with the 35 Winchester, or 35 Krag, something with a bit smaller case diameter, so as to add to the meat left in the threaded portion of the barrel.

[rking22]

The Browning low wall was chambered in 243 and 260( or was it 7-08???) any way , rimless "modern" rounds. I have played with this thought and came to decide a 35 Rem chamber with a lathe cut rim recess and use Krag brass to form, assuming I can trust my memory. I like rims in my single shots also. And I like really pretty wood on classic actions AND I like handi's . Just different reasons for the likes Efficiency is a strong attribute, and the rimmed 35 rem was for a rechambered handi I never got roundtuit on. I also have a browning 1885 in 30-06 ,28 inch taper oct barrel ,, pretty and shoots good. Just nice rifles.

[troyboy]

Neck up 307 brass for the 356. Have the chamber cut for 358/356 then the use your choice of brass.

[.45Cole]

I was also thinking about just getting a boat ton of .307 and then going about it that way. I would have the chamber cut to the necked up .307, as the new case will be a bit shorter. Or do the 35 Krag, but I think I might lose a little of the efficiency the .308 family of cases has. I would probably have to go with a bit of a faster powder in the .35 Krag than with a .358/.307 I assume. Most of this is in the finalize a dream, then start collecting materials phase.

Don-so it's not hard at all to convert a 1885 from handling rimmed cases to rimless cases? I see that Ballard only charges $50 for this in their modifications add-ons.

[Don McDowell]

Should just be a matter of installing the proper extractor after the barrel is chambered and headspaced.

[EDG]

Post 1964 is when Winchester nearly improved themselves out of business.
M94 - I do no like regardless of the era it was manufactured in. I had a .375 Big Bore (1981 model) that came from the factory with a crooked front sight and barrel. When I got that fixed Win put on another crooked barrel. But why are you talking about the M94, it not an el cheapo?
I had M1200 pump. It worked ok but no one would pick it over a model 12. Certainly no offered to trade me out of it. Again it is not a Handi either.
Shooting squirrels with a shotgun is not much to brag about. I like pumps but I shoot squirrels with a .22.
Bottom ejection is ok - that is not the problem. The bottom loading is what's is clumsy but if you have not shot one 50,000 times you might not understand it. The skeet shooting that I did falls into the realm of just plain shooting. I suspect you have never shot point and giggle skeet.
So you don't like ETC??? Does that mean everything else?
All those things you do not like indicate areas of the shooting sports where you probably have little experience.

How do I know the B78 is 4X stronger? How do you know it isn't?
Do you know any advanced mathematics? Do you know statics and strength of materials?
Do you know what Hook's law is or Young's Modulus is?
Do you understand that the longer the component under stress is the more it can stretch for the same amount of stress.
Do you understand that all steels have basically the same modulus of elasticity?
If you want the gun to be stronger make the load bearing components short and massive. The Browning (and Ruger #1) are short and massive. The breech end of the barrel and the receiver of the Handi are both long and relatively skinny. Under a heavy load they act like springs. You can analyze them using statics - the basic introductory course in engineering mechanics. Without examining the designs and understanding the engineering concepts you might not understand why a 3200 Remington is one of the strongest shotgun designs or why a Lee-Enfield is so springy.

Well EDG (BTW does that stand Expensive Distinguished Guns) 63-64 was a long time ago. That's about Winchester made so many improvements. The push feed post 64 model 70's feed a lot better than the pre 64. The post 64 model 94 once a few bugs were worked out is superior to the pre 64. My model 1300 winchester was an all round better gun than my model 12. My son has a BPS which he loves and is death on squirrels. I think the bottom ejector pumps are great if you like pumps. I think competitive shooting has had some deleterious effects on just plain shooting. Some things I really don't like are:
Heavy barrels
Large capacity magazines
Scopes
Light triggers
Star Wars stocks
ETC
If I want to shoot a 45 I will use my son's Glock. How do you know that a 78 is 4X strong as a Handirifle? Lots of people have published good reviews of the Handirifle. As far as strength goes the only true way that I know to test that is to shoot a gun to destruction with increasing loads. P.O. Ackley did this with some suurprising results

[skeettx]

My vote is for the 35 Winchester
http://www.chuckhawks.com/35Win.htm

or the 9x74R

Both fine cartirdges and rimmed
Mike

[olafhardt]

Well EDG, you are right there are many shooting sports I have never indulged in, never shot skeet or trap either. I also never played polo either. The profession of engineering includes some absolutely brilliant people and some of the dumbest essobees I ever met. I graduated with a degree in chemical engineering in 1972. For the next 30 years I worked with a jillion engineers: mechanical,electrical, civil, petroleum etc. Some were brilliant, some were dullards and a lot in between. I learned some "Tells" to help me tell them apart. When a guy starts throwing up his qualifications and a bunch of tech speak little red flags start rising in my mind. Thing is when a guy does all that I can not except his veracity in much of anything.

[.45Cole]

+1 Chem E!

[38-72]

I would go with a Win 405. Off the shelf ready made brass, bullets, dies and load data. Load it up or down, depending on how you want to use it.

[.45Cole]

Does anybody know of a good way to get my hands on a cheap action, preferably in the white. I know people here will kill me, but I was kinda in the making to hard chrome finish it. I have handled a Uberti that didn't cock the hammer when the lever was closed, as compared to my LW Browning.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

Olaf,

did I really see you post that the post-64's fed better than the old Mauser 98 copy claw extractor on the OM's?
If you prefer them you are really in luck. You can almost always buy four or five of them for what an OM sells for these days. They were designed to out-cheap the 700 in every area.

Rich

[Don McDowell]

Cole, the best bet would be to get one of the new Winchesters and have it re barreled. They can be found for 800 or so more often than not. CSSharps gets over a grand just for the action in the white.

[Doc Highwall]

I have Browning's in both High-wall's and Low-wall's. The Low-walls were chambered in 22 Hornet, 223 Rem., 243 Win. and a non catalog 260 Rem., I have both the 223 and 260 Rem. The Traditional Hunter was chambered in 357mag., 44mag., and 45 Colt. and I have two of them in 357mag. and two in 22Lr by Winchester.

[williamwaco]

So I'd REALLY like to have a .356/.358/.35 whelen caliber someday. I thought about a m1/m1a in .35 or a 788. A 1885 in .356 might be neat, as I'd only need one slug when they're that big. Is this possible, I assume that I would have to use a rimmed case for a winny/miroku 1885 or I could go rimless for the B-78. The .356 has the same rim diameter as the 30-30 family, and it's a hare smaller than the 40-65 family. I would just have to find a barrel manufacture who would make a barrel (maybe half round?) for it.
Something to ponder, your thoughts?

Not so. It is available in several rimless cases.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/produc...02C&mid=534112

[.45Cole]

I have a 1885 Browning low wall in .45 colt. I see that winny makes a high wall hunter with a 28" octagon bbl in 30-06. That should be enough to rebore the barrel and rechamber to .35 something. I have some time on the project, so I might call up winchester and see when the next .356 brass production is slated. I'd really like a .356!

I saw the cssharps actions, $1100+ . The winnys at least have wood, and maybe an octagon barrel that can be perhaps thrown on a m70 (just a thought, not looked into).

[olafhardt]

Olaf,

did I really see you post that the post-64's fed better than the old Mauser 98 copy claw extractor on the OM's?
If you prefer them you are really in luck. You can almost always buy four or five of them for what an OM sells for these days. They were designed to out-cheap the 700 in every area.

Rich

Rich, I actually prefer the Remington model 78, an economy version of the 700 ADL. The 78 has an elegant hardwood (birch?) stock and the wonderful blind magazine which does not drop cartridges when I am spotlighting deer. The old mausers I have seen have managed to jam if a shell is dropped in and the bolt is closed. Then they dropped their sheels all over the ground.

[Don McDowell]

That's 788 not 78...