black powder and 9mm auto how to?

[barnetmill]

Interesting thread. I have no interest myself in loading 9x19 with BP. It is interesting how some of the posters responded. I would probably as suggested use it only if there was no other choice in cartridges that were originally loaded with BP such as the .38 spl, .44 spl, and .45 colt.
Probably also work well in manually operated shotguns.

[Carrier]

If you do try it I suggest you pull the grips off your auto, spray the snot out of everything with Ballistol, wipe excess off and reassemble. You want all petroleum oil off of it. Will make the clean up much easier cause it will be dirty. You need a bullet that has a lube groove, like mentioned use SPG or beeswax with olive oil and fill groove as much as possible. Find where bullet seats and fill with FFF powder so you have a 1/16 or so compression and seat bullet. Good luck.
You might find that your auto will be a single shot or it may cycle a few times.

[jednorris]

If you succeed in loading and shooting Black Powder, I would TOTALLY disassemble the gun for cleaning afterwards.

[barnetmill]

Youtube look up: Black Powder 9mm Everything Black Powder.

He got a blow back 9x19mm AR to work. He was using jacketed fmj and the accuracy disappears, but gun function for 67 times until he ran out of black powder loads. When he cleaned it later, the fouling was very hard and he thought that if he used bullets lubed with proper blackpowder lubricant the fouling would not have been as difficult to remove.

[Swineherd]

Shallow thinkers don't often have any real understanding of the way things work. Instead, they regurgitate and mime established authorities while taking indignant offense to unconventional or novel thinking.

[Shanghai Jack]

Shallow thinkers don't often have any real understanding of the way things work. Instead, they regurgitate and mime established authorities while taking indignant offense to unconventional or novel thinking.

Or even thinking from ages past. I got told to leave a range because I was going to blow up my antique schuetzen rifle. Range officer was sure that breech seating would result in the gun blowing up. Conventional wisdom is seldom either.

[Swineherd]

Or even thinking from ages past. I got told to leave a range because I was going to blow up my antique schuetzen rifle. Range officer was sure that breech seating would result in the gun blowing up. Conventional wisdom is seldom either.

Reading instructions is good. Understanding them is better.

[2TM101]

I've loaded Black Powder 9mm - but used it in a Uberti Cattleman II, a 9mm revolver. The case capacity is within 1/3 of a grain of .38 short colt so you can use that data. As such it works fine, because the cases eject with a push rod and not by the non-existant rim.

Starline finally got actual .38 short colt brass in so now I mostly use that. Only reason I did 9mm is because I have an unlimited supply of brass, and the Uberti ejects cases with a pushrod so you don't need moon clips. Also I have a wet tumbler now, as dry tumblers can't really handle cases after they have been used with BP.

If I am paying a dime for the primer, the less than a penny I save using my own powder instead of smokeless makes this really not worth it.

[Swineherd]

I just find it amusing how many know-it-alls will jump at the opportunity to criticize someone for asking any question they consider unorthodox.

It's more important to them to bludgeon the questioner with their supposed expertise than to give an informed answer. Probably because they can't really form one.

And then this guy gets banned! LOL

Like a mob of vicious lemmings.

[1eyedjack]

Here's your sign.

[barnetmill]

I just find it amusing how many know-it-alls will jump at the opportunity to criticize someone for asking any question they consider unorthodox.

It's more important to them to bludgeon the questioner with their supposed expertise than to give an informed answer. Probably because they can't really form one.

And then this guy gets banned! LOL

Like a mob of vicious lemmings.

I had a moderator once get angry over the topic of loading bullet backwards. In the classic book: 'Hunter' by Hunter when they ran out of FMJ bullets for african big game they turned the bullets backward for example and assume the guns were the big double express rifles. Some people will turn hollow based wad cutters backwards in .38's for example.

[Swineherd]

I had a moderator once get angry over the topic of loading bullet backwards. In the classic book: 'Hunter' by Hunter when they ran out of FMJ bullets for african big game they turned the bullets backward for example and assume the guns were the big double express rifles. Some people will turn hollow based wad cutters backwards in .38's for example.

Exactly.

In this very thread, guy asks question and is immediately asked "Why would you want to do that?" The implication being "That's a stupid idea"
As if in order to get a straight answer he needs to justify his motivations to a self appointed internet expert.

OP is then swamped with accusations that the whole idea is dangerously mad, which it obviously isn't, and was ultimately banned.

Perhaps there's a reason for his banishment beyond failing to properly prostrate himself before the egos of the cool-kid-club on this forum, but this thread isn't very flattering to the site.

[Dutchman]

I'd think that most of us in the upper atmosphere of life have been handloading and bullet casting for over 50 years. We learned either from an experienced mentor, as I did, or from a book, like the excellent Lyman loading manuals or the much older Phil Sharpe book on handloading. We learned to re-produce the kinds of results that we wanted. All such success comes from repetition of established protocol.

That being said, there also needs to be stretching of what we think are limits in the various methodology attached to handloading and bullet casting. Without experimentation you stagnate free thought. A good example might be those here who paint their bullets. For the life of me I just can't get into it. Don't have an interest in it and don't want to hear anybody else so I avoid that particular forum. Don't know exactly why I have a mental block about it but I do. The first, many years ago, thought was that sometime in the future a single, lone bullet is found somewhere it shouldn't have been, or *in* something it shouldn't have been in. Very easy to match paint chemistry in a forensics laboratory to what they found in your shop. You see? Criminology was the first thought on the subject!! (the brain can be weird at times.

Now talk about manufacturing small arms primers. What a fascinating field that has grown into with all manner of mindsets and experimentation. Who'da thunk? While I'm sure I'll never indulge myself in that field I do enjoy following the practice and the growth of that area. It has a valued worth for us all in the event of......

Not all thinking outside the box is successful. Much fails. But some give usable results. We will never know unless we, or somebody else, tries.

Who's the genius who thought up using spent .22RF to make bullet jackets? One of the most wonderful aspects of being human is our ability to innovate and invent.

Dutch

[MrWolf]

Exactly.

In this very thread, guy asks question and is immediately asked "Why would you want to do that?" The implication being "That's a stupid idea"
As if in order to get a straight answer he needs to justify his motivations to a self appointed internet expert.

OP is then swamped with accusations that the whole idea is dangerously mad, which it obviously isn't, and was ultimately banned.

Perhaps there's a reason for his banishment beyond failing to properly prostrate himself before the egos of the cool-kid-club on this forum, but this thread isn't very flattering to the site.

The earlier posts mention instances of "Chat" issues so I think there was more to it than what was in this thread.

[2TM101]

Who's the genius who thought up using spent .22RF to make bullet jackets? One of the most wonderful aspects of being human is our ability to innovate and invent. Dutch

I would really want to know who first got the idea that PAINTING bullets would work out.

But on topic - 9mm BP is basically the original .38 short colt. Used that way its fine. But semiauto and BP were never meant to coexist, and historially, they didn't. (though it was close)

[gloob]

Didn't like how this thread started, at all. Respect for how it endured, after.

I'll be sure to load with black powder about the time I start reloading my own primers. Probably using a Lee Loader and a hammer. Results would probably be a lot better in 38 special or 45ACP.

[barnetmill]

I would really want to know who first got the idea that PAINTING bullets would work out.

But on topic - 9mm BP is basically the original .38 short colt. Used that way its fine. But semiauto and BP were never meant to coexist, and historially, they didn't. (though it was close)

But if black powder and a 9x19 is all you have, you do what you gotta do.
And yes since a .38 spl was originally designed around black powder, it would work a lot better with BP.

[Brimstone]

If Elmer Keith had been a modern guy on a forum....let that sink in. It's why I warn members not to stray away from the Homemade BP thread and especially not outside the ML forum when asking anything about making it as they'll be met with open hostility.

[Scrounge]

Have loaded bp in 38 spl and 38 s&w, the 38 s& w cartridges didnot have much ump to them. The 38 spl shoot ok.No air space in the cartridge with black powder, bp needs to be compressed.

.38 S&W never did have very much upmf to them. And they were originally a black powder cartridge. An old Lyman Ideal reloading handbook, #38, from 1951, had load data for the 38 S&W. Not black powder data, but Unique, and Bullseye, powders I was using when I started reloading for my own .38 S&W revolver, an Iver Johnson Break-top. 2-3 grains of Bullseye worked well for the shot capsules I usually loaded, and 2 grains was supposed to give about 580fps with a 158gr bullet, 3 grains gave about 800 fps with the same bullet. At least according to the copy of that handbook I have now. My ex got that pistol over 40 years ago, and lost it. Left it in her car, and it was stolen. Not by me, either. There was not a great deal of recoil with those loads, IIRC. I can see a 9mm auto not doing all that well functioning with BP.

And that cartridge was why the US Army switched to the .45 Auto when they came out, as the .38 S&W was too anemic for the little Moro tribesmen in the Philippines a few years before.

[Swineherd]

If Elmer Keith had been a modern guy on a forum....let that sink in. It's why I warn members not to stray away from the Homemade BP thread and especially not outside the ML forum when asking anything about making it as they'll be met with open hostility.

Those who dance appear insane to those who cannot hear the music.