Uberti High walls ?

[Chill Wills]

For reasons I can not control, the above post is all run together, no mater what I did the correction did not take and it posted twice, sorry for the hard read!

[brad925]

I own both a Uberti 45-70 and a H&R 45-70 and find both be more than accurate enough gun. the H&R is a one holer with smokeless and a 300gr JHP. 400gr cast it will put them inside a 2" square at 100. Its limited sights are its only real down fall. as far as being too light I added lead shot to the butt stock and it is now an 11lb rifle. The Uberti took a little more work finding a load but seems to like the 535 lyman postell with smokeless. The first time I tried pyrodex select in it with the 535gr postell it shot 1.25" -1.5" groups. Never had a problem with leading in either rifles. I shoot as cast with a diameter of .459 - .460. I like the straight stock but the cresent butt plate does require me to wear a pad. Only problem was I made a bad choice on sights. I purchased the pedersoli long range sight and the staff cannot be mounted completely vertical for you cannot see the front sight if you do. the eye piece has a bit of a tube that you look through which limits what you see. Spend the money on a better sight. It also requires a longer screw when mounting than what is provided with the sights. I made it work for now but you will have to spend the time at the range figuring out markings on the staff for adjustments.

[bigted]

chills is right on the money with the different model 1885 from winchester and browning. i have 2 of the light sporters ... one a browning ... the other a winchester. 38-55 and 45-70.

also have the BPCR browning mentioned above. this rifle is just dandy in every respect ... the BPCR. i have shot duplex loads thru it into a ragged hole at 75 yds with the Lyman 457125 boolits lubed with SPG and seated out to hug the rifling with the front lube groove. worked out to 7 grains IMR 4227 and 54 grains GOEX 2F compressed with a compression die from Baco. no crimp ... just remove the flair at the mouth. it is a pill with other loads and will take some fidgeting to get it to shoot but ... when it all comes together ... that heavy rifle will deliver the goods.

[vikingson57]

If I understand everything it sounds like I want to stick with a rifle with the badger barrel, finicky or not and build a load. Like I had said I am not planning on competing, yet. The information Chill Wills gave me has been enlightening. I don't want to out grow this rifle but if it all works out this will not be my only BPCR to shoot. Am already saving for a 40-65 or 40-70 now too...addictive habit and I have only just begun. I will say that I have done a lot of single shot black powder shooting but with original 73 trap doors spring fields. So though not totally new, it is still an interesting challenge. Thank you all. BigTed, I am looking forward to seeing the pictures when you get them sent to me..

[oldred]

Ok at the risk of sounding like a broken record on the subject I think there is a very important point being left out here, while most (probably everyone), are already aware of this some who are considering a rifle choice may not be aware of the differences in the Highwall types. The modern Browning/Winchesters, unlike the Uberti (and other Highwall makes), are simply not Highwalls in the traditional sense, they share almost nothing in mechanical design and offer only a passing resemblance in outward appearance and feel. They are much more complex in design containing many more internal parts and are MUCH more difficult to disassemble/reassemble, basically they are very different rifles that share only a vaguely similar outward appearance and the name. It's far more than just minor differences in internal parts, these newer rifles are a thoroughly modern design that deviates significantly not only from the original appearance but completely abandons the simplicity of the originals and they share almost nothing except the aforementioned vague appearance and basic single shot function so from a traditional BP standpoint they are as different as night and day. The Ubertis, C Sharps, etc stay true to the original design, simplicity and appearance, just something a perspective buyer might want to consider.

[giorgio]

Some years ago I had two Uberti Highwalls , with heavy octagonal barrels.
I threw away the buttstocks with the two brass points and put on the "shotgun stocks" on both.
My home is two and a half hours drive from Gardone Val Trompia, where they make them.
I used the best italian tang sights available ,the Soule sight.
The 45/70 did recoil , while the 38-55 was a joy to shoot ,it went under 1 MOA at 100 meters with a long pointed Lyman mould weighing around 300 grains ,and a pinch of shotgun powder.
The chamber , bore and brass dimensions accepted 380 diameter bullets
Both are too muzzle heavy for an old crippled shooter like me, and I sold them .
I can hold and shoot gongs for fun from offhand a Ruger N°3 45/70 carbine and a Chiappa Little Sharps in 38-55 , but the two Uberti were much more accurate for bencrest shooting.
Brownings design is very much better than Sharps, if it is legal in your match , use the highwall.

[Nobade]

This guy wrote the book on the Browning 1885 rifles -
http://www.texas-mac.com/

And he is sometimes on this forum. If you are contemplating owning one of those rifles, you need to read his book. I just recently did, and sure wish I had years ago before I ever tried to take one apart. He also buys and sells them.

-Nobade

[rfd]

i have no experience with the uberti or armi firearms, but i've had a pedersoli kentucky flintlock rifle that was truly superb. pedersoli is known for its match grade type broach cut barrels.

i used an H&R buff classic .45-70 for over a year and just sold it. it's really a fine rifle, add in a butt weight and yer up to a 9.5+ pound long gun that's fine for stout loads, and this rifle can handle ruger loads no problem (but my shoulder can't). it's one drawback is the trigger pull - it's Heavy and will absolutely require some honing to get it down from 6# to a sane 3#. still, this is THE rifle to get into the .45-70 s/s game, whether smokeless or holy black, for less than $500. imho it's a good 'transition' rifle, and you Will (as i have) look further up the s/s rifle ladder.

so for the last month or so i'd been in the market for a better .45-70 than the buff classic and did a Lot of research into both the 'lower end' (uberti, armi and pedersoli) and 'high end' (shiloh, cpa, c.sharps, etc), as well as taking a close look at the action types. hand's down, due to its simplicity and ease of maintenance over the falling blocks (high wall and sharps), i chose the rolling block action and just bought a pedersoli bodine remington w/34" barrel - $1800 and comes with a decent set of long range sights. so far, so good. after over 50 years of smokeless, now to begin working with the holy black.

[montana_charlie]

Also is the 45-90 too much gun to enjoy shooting or can it be loaded light to enjoy practice sessions?

Now that everybody has had a chance to tell you about the various brands of rifle, I'll make a little suggestion for this question of yours.

I have a 45/90, but I have not tried to 'download' it for low recoil shooting. But, if I did ...
I see no reason to think that you couldn't put a 45/70 load in a 45/90 case.
I'm talking strictly black powder, here, and I would seat the bullet down into the case to the same 'distance from the breechblock' that it would occupy when loaded in 45/70 brass.

That means the bullet nose would be pretty far from the lands, but for plinking loads it should work quite well, anyway.

The brass case fills the entire chamber, so it isn't like shooting 45/70 shells in a 45/90 and filling the chamber mouth with scraped-off lead.

If you choose a 45/90, you might want to give the idea a try ... after you get far enough down the path to go looking for 'experiments'.

CM

[rfd]

... Also is the 45-90 too much gun to enjoy shooting or can it be loaded light to enjoy practice sessions? Thanks all.

that's easy if you go smokeless with trail boss. i load .45-70 at about 90% case full and my 11ygrandson shoots it with .243win kinda recoil.

[Rufus Krile]

Yup to what Chill Wills just said. I own one of the 45/70 BPCR's after shopping (like you're doing) for awhile. Had decided on a Sharps of some variety or other when a friend pointed out that the guys that shoot them competitively carry a pocketful of pins and springs and such to the line... but that they're easy to work on. He'd shot an '85 for 15 years and, other than cleaning, did nothing to it the whole time. Another point to consider is that the Winchester comes with first rate tang sights and the Uberti/Pedersoli/whatever require the addition of about $500 worth of extra iron. Stick with the 45/70... it'll do anything you want to do and is easier/cheaper to find brass.

[MikeT]

Some one is misleading you if you think that a Sharps requires alot of parts to operate. I have had more breakage on my Highwall rifles than on my Sharps rifles.
That is multiple triggers broken on the hiwalls, to zero parts broken on my three sharps rifles.

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT

[Gunlaker]

I'm not the highest volume shooter around, but I shoot as much as I can. All 1885's, 1874's, and a CPA.
In the last 7 or so years I've only once broken a firing pin in any rifle and it was a CSA 1874. That's one broken part in what I'd estimate is 17,000 - 18,000 rounds.

I think these are all pretty reliable rifles.

Chris.

[country gent]

You can easily load 45-70 in the 45-90 case it is a simple issue of volumne. Find you rifles full house 45-90 load with the desired bullet. Wieght out a powder charge and with a small flat ended straw remove powder from charge to around 65 grns. Save the pulled of powder in a seperate small pan. A digital scales works good for this as it doesnt have to be reset. The excess powder in the small pan pour into a pistol case and trim to match that level of powder and glue or solder a handle to it. When loading drop your powder charge and a card board wad ( I used poster board here) then a level dipper of cream of wheat, grex, or other granular filler your wad compress to depth and seat bullet. It works very well like this. All you need to do is maintain compression and volumne the same as your 45-90 and a little tweaking. Another trick is to go to 1 f powder for slightly lighter loads.

[vikingson57]

Thanks for all the information. I made a post on the wanted page for a winchester/Browning 45/70 BPCR. I know that there seem to be a lot more of the sharps rifles out there for sale but am really interested in a high wall. I also posted on the BPCR page for information on sights....what is a Soule sight and how does it compare to a standard tang sight? I am also looking at finding a Pedersoli if one comes along as well as chatting with C. Sharps about maybe just getting one of theirs built for me. I had considered loading down the 45-90, but the rifles don't seem to come with the shotgun butt plate or pistol grip. Though there are more out there in that configuration. I have time to wait for what I want.

Thanks again for all your help in figuring this out.

[Gunlaker]

C. sharps builds a nice highwall. I'd go that way over the Browning. If you go with a .45-90 make I suggest making it it heavy. A 32" #4 barrel to soak up some recoil and it'd still make silhouette weight limits. Definitely go with a pistol grip and shotgun buttplate.
Chris.

[oldred]

Just for recoil comparison on the 45/90 my Highwall type rifle with 32" barrel weighs 14 1/2 lbs so it is a bit on the heavy side, with a 500 grain Lee 458-500-3R and all the 2FG I can cram into the case recoil is simply a non-issue. Even with a brass crescent buttplate and straight grip with this combo at the 14 1/2 lbs recoil is such that I can shoot all day without any discomfort at all and I only weigh about 155 lbs myself.

[rfd]

Just for recoil comparison on the 45/90 my Highwall type rifle with 32" barrel weighs 14 1/2 lbs so it is a bit on the heavy side, with a 500 grain Lee 458-500-3R and all the 2FG I can cram into the case recoil is simply a non-issue. Even with a brass crescent buttplate and straight grip with this combo at the 14 1/2 lbs recoil is such that I can shoot all day without any discomfort at all and I only weigh about 155 lbs myself.

with yer 14-1/2# rifle, yer getting only 14-1/2# recoil with a .45-90, 500 grain boolit, and a case full up of 2fg?

[oldred]

with yer 14-1/2# rifle, yer getting only 14-1/2# recoil with a .45-90, 500 grain boolit, and a case full up of 2fg?

Lol! I guess that does sound kind of dumb and after re-reading it I think I need to clarify a bit, "at the 14 1/2" lbs" also was referring to the weight of the rifle although I guess it doesn't look that way by the way I said it. Sorry about that I will try to proof read a little better in the future.


Anyway my point is that the weight does indeed make a huge difference and the same 500 gr Lee slug at an equivalent velocity in my 45/70 Marlin (I single load them) is a real shoulder breaker! Even with a lighter load of FFG black in the shorter 45/70 case the lighter Marlin still kicks a LOT harder at the lower velocity than the heavier rifle with the 45-90 load.

[rfd]

Lol! I guess that does sound kind of dumb and after re-reading it I think I need to clarify a bit, "at the 14 1/2" lbs" also was referring to the weight of the rifle although I guess it doesn't look that way by the way I said it. Sorry about that I will try to proof read a little better in the future.


Anyway my point is that the weight does indeed make a huge difference and the same 500 gr Lee slug at an equivalent velocity in my 45/70 Marlin (I single load them) is a real shoulder breaker! Even with a lighter load of FFG black in the shorter 45/70 case the lighter Marlin still kicks a LOT harder at the lower velocity than the heavier rifle with the 45-90 load.

heheheh - i wuz wonderin bout dat!

i'm getting roughly 20# of recoil with my 45-70 using 500grn boolits and 26grns of aa5744, for a 9.5# rifle. if i go with a trail boss 70% load, it's about 11# of thrust on the shoulder, and about 13# with a 90% tb load. trail boss is a godsend for those who have recoil issues and wanna play with big caliber rifles - and tb has some durned good acc'racy, to boot.