A tale red loktite, screws, Kroil and Grace tools

[ShinyPartsUp]

I got a new lever gun from Rossi. Yep, cheap, serviceable and you get what you pay for. First order of business was getting rid of the scope mount (A scope on a '92 with saddle ring?) to put the buckhorn rear sight on the barrel.

I used a Grace screwdriver (I know nobody at Grace, wasn't paid by Grace, and got the screwdriver set as a gift) and I managed to get three of four screws out. In the process I learned some idiot at the factory used red loctite in the holes! Who does that?! The fourth was a bugger and eventually the screw driver tip partially chipped off. After a bit of cussing I put some Kroil on the screw and hoped. I had always heard heat was the only thing that loosens red loctite. An hour later, some banging on another screwdriver with a hammer in the mangled screw head, some grunt work and the screw gave way.

Forward to today, when I called Grace to ask how much to replace the screwdriver I buggered up. The nice guy on the phone said to give him my name and address and they would send another out. I offered to pay for postage at least since it was my abuse that caused the failure. He declined saying it is their policy to replace the tools if they break. Before I could tell my tale he mentioned that usually it is red loctite in screw holes that breaks their screwdrivers, and a penetrating oil helps loosen it up. Uhhhh, yeah . I found out they are a small family run outfit and all American.

So I am passing on to anybody as dumb as I was that penetrating oil helps in this situation, and that Grace has been good to me.

Now I need to stain the ugly red non-descript furniture that has three different hues.

[MrWolf]

Nice tip and nice to hear a USA company standing behind their products. We need more to do that so others can also take pride in buying American and keep the dollars at home where they are needed.

[Garyshome]

I Never use the red stuff on anything!

[MtGun44]

I almost always use red Loctite on scope mount screws after trial assembly and
testing. It is a really good idea, IMO. To remove, just warm it up with a torch until the
oil just starts to smoke a bit and it gives up. Doesn't hurt a thing.

Sounds like they stand behind their products, good to hear. You have good tool
companies standing behind their products - Snap-On and Craftsman come to mind,
although they aren't in the same class, both will replace broken tools. I think Mac
may do it, too. Never heard of Grace screwdrivers, but now I know that they are
a quality company.

Great stuff, red Loctite, I use it on anything I REALLY don't want coming unscrewed - like
scope mount screws. As do lots of other folks, ---- so warming up tiny screws is a good policy
if they won't come out with normal force - for Loctite or just rust and old grease,
it works.

Another tip, about the very best penetrating oil is made by mixing automatic transmission fluid
with acetone about 50-50. I have used lacquer thinner and tractor hydraulic fluid in an emergency
with excellent results, too. No idea what it does to Loctite.

Oh, yeah, store the mix in a metal can.

Bill

[ShinyPartsUp]

The man at Grace said years ago they charged 50 cents to replace or regrind their products, then upped it to $1, but a few years ago the owner said it was not worth it, and free replacement made customers for life, so they stopped charging, taking a long-term view.

[ShinyPartsUp]

I almost always use red Loctite on scope mount screws after trial assembly and
testing. It is a really good idea, IMO. To remove, just warm it up with a torch until the
oil just starts to smoke a bit and it gives up. Doesn't hurt a thing....
Bill

I'm honestly glad that works for you Bill. But with smaller screws, my experience has been Blue Loctite works flawlessly with fewer hassles removing hardware later (e.g. when selling a gun but wanting to retain the scope and mount).Purple loctite is outstanding for set screws.

[Blue2]

Use Locktite #243 Blue-It is tolerant of some oil being present. Same strength as Locktite 242 but the 242 requires that the screw and threaded hole be degreased before installation. I service a lot of guns each year and I find that a soldering gun applied to the screw is necessary to break the hold of red locktite. Really for small threaded gunscrews the blue 243 is perfect for the application.

[32ideal]

Here Is Grace's website, they are just 30 miles north west of me in Williamsburg Mchigan, great company with excellent tools!
Mike

http://www.graceusatools.com/index.php

[Dan Cash]

Grace gets my commendation as well. After years of improvisation, I finally broke down and ordered some screwdrivers from Grace. Asked how much money to send and was told, "we'll bill you." How about that in this day and age. The screwdrivers arived in under a week and my check went out in the next day's mail. What a class act company and their screwdrivers are perfect fit for each intended screw.

[williamwaco]

Grace Screwdrivers ROCK!

( And no. I am not related either.)

[fouronesix]

Great to hear about Grace tools. No doubt my next batch of screwdrivers will be Grace.

As to the Red Loctite for scope and base screws. If the break-down temp is around 300F, the same would hold true for most epoxies. So a good epoxy or even JB Weld (with a slightly higher break-down temp) would be similar if not the same as Red Loctite. Yes, the screws will stay put.

Playing devil's advocate here, the thing that happens once in a while (but very rarely) is that a scope will need to be taken off or replaced in the field, sans a specialized heat source or solvent or even quality screwdrivers. For normal use where there is a good chance the scope won't be changed for a long time or where the right tools are handy to undo the screws- not a problem.

[RoyEllis]

As to the Red Loctite for scope and base screws. If the break-down temp is around 300F, the same would hold true for most epoxies. So a good epoxy or even JB Weld (with a slightly higher break-down temp) would be similar if not the same as Red Loctite. Yes, the screws will stay put.

Playing devil's advocate here, the thing that happens once in a while (but very rarely) is that a scope will need to be taken off or replaced in the field, sans a specialized heat source or solvent or even quality screwdrivers. For normal use where there is a good chance the scope won't be changed for a long time or where the right tools are handy to undo the screws- not a problem.

If you REALLY want to take a fair shot at ruining a gun......use JB Weld on those screws. I've modified several lead casting molds with it & still have some sinker and jig molds that have the JB perfectly intact after thousands of pours. JB will stand up to 700F+ used where it has a metallic "heat sink" to keep absorbing & dissipating the heat applied.
For in the field heating loctited screws, carry some cheapy bits for cordless drills preferably the 1.5 to 2 inch long ones and a long pair of needlenose pliers. Tuck a bit into the coals of a fire for a few minutes til red hot then rake it out & use the pliers to hold it on the screw head. Sometimes takes 2 treatments but you'll fry out the loctite & loosen the screw in no time.

[fouronesix]

If you REALLY want to take a fair shot at ruining a gun......use JB Weld on those screws. I've modified several lead casting molds with it & still have some sinker and jig molds that have the JB perfectly intact after thousands of pours. JB will stand up to 700F+ used where it has a metallic "heat sink" to keep absorbing & dissipating the heat applied.
For in the field heating loctited screws, carry some cheapy bits for cordless drills preferably the 1.5 to 2 inch long ones and a long pair of needlenose pliers. Tuck a bit into the coals of a fire for a few minutes til red hot then rake it out & use the pliers to hold it on the screw head. Sometimes takes 2 treatments but you'll fry out the loctite & loosen the screw in no time.

Ya, like everyone carries specialized tools, torches, soldering guns on hunts, etc. especially when traveling or in remote areas. And, I didn't suggest using JB Weld. Of the common epoxies, it happens to have a slightly higher break-down temp- but I don't think it is near 700 F! Good grief. Plus, I don't even use Red Loctite for such things- it's use has simply been brought up in this thread in a few posts as a go-to scope mount screw binder, including the OP where he broke out a Grace screwdriver trying undo a Red Loctite screw. I simply clean the holes and screws with acetone, use a dab of varnish or Blue Loctite and cinch them down tight. Never had a scope much less a mount screw come loose in 45 years-- from 22s to big boomers.

[RoyEllis]

Well, if you would be so kind as to read and comprehend my post, I never said anything about specialized tools, torches nor soldering guns. And yes, JB Weld will do exactly as I said if it has a metallic heat sink to draw off heat, I don't think this, I know it as fact from use and experience.
Straight off the JB pkg "rated for constant exposure to temperatures up to 600F".
That said, I totally agree with you that red loctite isn't needed to secure scope screws, if it's cleaned well like you do, even a drop of clear fingernail polish will hold til the cows come home yet break loose fairly easily when you want it off. That's worked for almost 60 years.

[ShinyPartsUp]

Just out of curiosity and to be sure: I want to clean out the remaining red loctite from the screw holes. What is the easiest way?

[country gent]

I have used and seen loctites used in industry on guns and farm equipment. One thing we were always told was under 1/4" blue required heat also. In the food industry stainless steel could be an issue with its use as galling could result. Used properly and in controlled conditions it does a great job. A good fitted thread and square true mating counter bore for the screw head and close fittingon the heads od makes a big diffrence. We used to put a light drop on small screws on the shoulder under the head and tighten if close fit around outside of head also. This held well and was easier to break loose. There are other products out there for this also Vibra tight comes to mind as we used it alot on feeder bowls. Was a liquid plastic that filled the threads and created a solid fit. Nail polish, paint or even a powdered rosin will work also. On screws that just dont dare to come loose they can be staked into the holes also. This makes a very solid mechanical joint. I have also fit everything together marked alighnments and fit Keeper screws to the heads. ( a small screw whose head intersects the holding screws head to lock it.

[AggieEE]

ShinyPartsUp, On the ultrasonic cleaners that I work on they use red Locktite on the transducer bolts. Once the bolt is out wire wheel for the bolts and a tap for the hole. Use care not to mess up the threads. I would suggest a bottoming tap and use a small jacobs chuck just for the finger grip. Don't use the tap wrench, too easy to apply too much twist.

[TXBRILL]

When working on Harleys the old Locktite saying is " If you don't want it to fall off use Blue, If it makes you go or stop use Red".

[silverado]

Glad to hear about a good American company... craftsman seems to be going downhill, all the socket sets for sale at my sears are made in china, for the same price as the made in USA ones they replaced (they had Chinese ones hanging next to the US made ones during the transition.

[Jim_P]

I stumbled on this thread earlier today and checked out Grace Tools. They offer a Gun Care set with pin punches, screwdrivers, a small hammer and a bench block all together for (direct from them) $137.50. I found out the price by sending an E-Mail and asking. The return E-Mail (less than an hour later), was if you're interested, send me your address and I'll send the tools. When you get them, send in the check. They'll cover shipping. This from the company President.

So, it seems the business practices of this company also follows in their workmanship and quality. Old World. On this alone, if you need tools to work on your guns, this would be a great place to start.

http://www.graceusatools.com/item-de...&category_id=1

If it matters, these screwdrivers and such will be replacing a cheap Chinese B-Square set. Already twisted the smallest slot driver bit. Not real high quality steel.