What's it For?

[Bent Ramrod]

Guys,

I have a Hoch paper patch slug mould that is numbered 443500. I presume this is a 500-grain boolit that is 0.443" in diameter. What I am less clear on is what it is supposed to patch up to. Two wraps of patch paper should bring it up to 0.451" or so, I would think. Would this slug up and work in a .458 caliber, like a .45-70? 500 grains seems a little heavy for a .43 or .44 caliber, at least from my reading.

Thanks in advance.

Bent

[45 2.1]

You are basically correct on the patched diameter. It is meant to be used in the standard large capacity 45 caliber rifles with BLACK POWDER. The patched slug will go into the throat/barrel and slug up when fired.

[KCSO]

This would be a good bullet for a 45 2 1/10 80 with the bullet almost all the way into the throat and just about 1/10" of the heel lightly crimped into the case.

[Bent Ramrod]

Thanks, guys. I typically use 400-grain bullets in that caliber and want to see what a heavier one will do.

[Buckshot]

................It could also be used for the long range 45 cal muzzle loaders.



First swage dies I bought was for exactly that. A .443" 1.5 ogive cup based slug to paper patch for use in my Rigby and Whitworth muzzle loaders. Although 500 grs is a bit light, as most 100 yard shooters use a 530gr or more boolit weight.



.................Buckshot

[EDK]

You just stumbled in to the source of a lot of discussions. Some authorities think you should patch to bore size and others to groove size. All have good arguments to support their position...and some d--- good looking targets to back them up.The next discussions would be straight sides or tapered, followed by plain or cup base.

I'm trying to figure out what I want for my 50/90 SHILOH SHARPS in a paperpatch boolit and suffering from "information overload." Only thing I'm sure of is that I want Red River Rick to make the mould. Look at his post MAKING MOULDS MY WAY

[wonderwolf]

Buckshot is that the original Sharps design on the bottom picture?

[Bent Ramrod]

Mike Venturino in his Buffalo Rifles book mentioned that he used a mould for a 45-caliber patched boolit and found the castings to be .445 just behind the ogive and .451 at the base. A taper like that would certainly help start the patch into the rifling without pushing it back or tearing it.

[Buckshot]

Buckshot is that the original Sharps design on the bottom picture?

.............No. Those were some of my first slugs I'd swaged and they were about 50 grs too heavy at 580grs . I only took the photo and keep it because they were so big! The swage die will swage up cores from about 450grs to close to 600 grs.

................Buckshot

[wonderwolf]

My next Q.....do you know where one could obtain a mold that would throw the original sharps long range bullet? Just curious

[Buckshot]

My next Q.....do you know where one could obtain a mold that would throw the original sharps long range bullet? Just curious

...............I really don't know what that is. If anyone were to have a mould dropping it, it would most likely be Buffalo Arms. I'm guessing none of the big 4 mainline mould makers offers it?

.................Buckshot

[wonderwolf]

Something like what was on the www.iastate.edu page before it obviously crashed. I think I remember the page saying he swagged for uniformity. Though if a mold did exist it would have to be fairly deep.

[uscra112]

The 19th Century Mauser 11mm military cartridge was patched up to something just under bore size - I know, because I have one of the beasts, and a boxful of the original military rounds, a few of which I've dismantled for measurement. The thing is, the small diameter was intended to work in a well-fouled bore. ( It was after all, a military round. ) The boolit itself is dead soft lead. This would obturate nicely into the bore, fouled or not. Target practitioners used 1-20 mix, which wouldn't obturate quite as well, and they cleaned their bores every shot. They sized up to groove diameter or very close. So I think the bore-or-groove diameter discussion arise sfrom the difference in the application. Soft lead boolit can be smaller, harder boolit must be larger.

[gregg877]

Wonderwolf,

Stumbled across this link to Brooks Moulds, he is advertising an original Sharps style mould in 45 2 7/8 for paper patching, a little price though. Check it out.

http://www.brooksmoulds.com/bullets2.html

Hope that helps ya.

Best, Gregg