Scavenging reloading supplies

[AJG]

Scavenging shotgun shells for powder and lead is completely safe as I started it on a regular basis.
I live in an latin country in South America where powder is not legally availlable but all other reloading components yes. So scavenging is the only way there is to reload in my country.
I just recently started reloading as slowly arrives my equipment. Rigth now I am set up for 9 mm Luger but soon will be able to reload 38 spl and 357 magnum. Till now I have reloaded about 80 9 mm shells from scavenged shotshell powder.
Here is the math:
Currency= Pesos (which is any given currency unit in order to disguise/hyde my location).
1 12 ga shotshell costs 3000 Pesos. I get about 6 9mm charges from 1 12 ga shotshell brand Orbea. I use WSP (Winchester) primers and FMJ Winchester 115 grain bullets (for now. I am going to cast all bullets since it is way cheaper and lead is readily availlable). I have an S&W SD9VE 9mm pistol which cycles reliably on an powder charge of 4.3 grain (Lymans Reload Manual puts as minimal charge 4.5 grains but this shotshell powder is a little quicker burning as Unique). I have an 17 lbs Galloway spring in that pistol. 3.5 grain does not eject all cartridges. 4 grain does eject all cartridges but gives a few stove pipes. 4.4 grain cycles perfectly but as powder is rare and has to be economizised I settled on 4.3 grains. Today I shot a middle size ostrich with my 4.3 grain reloads from a distance of 110 meters on the field. I never expected to hit him but he dropped at the spot (I guess lung shot). That gives me lots of respect for the 9mm round since it seemed have passed rigth through the ostrich (although I could not find an Exit wound it had blood stream on the entrance and Exit wound, so there must be an Exit wound). To be on the safe side I contacted Nobel Sports and another shotshell manufacturer whose shotshells I scavenge and they inclusive gave me an burn rate Chart and both powders (as well those argentinian shotshells) are very Close to Unique from Alliant Powders in burn rate (they actually burn a Little quicker). So if you have Unique reload data you should be safe to use it but have to download a Little bit (allways work your loads up).
Scavenging shotshells for powder and lead is completely safe as Long as you know what you are doing and investigate lots on the Internet.
Scavenging shotshells is the only source of powder lots of People have but it is a viable and feasable source (but Labor intensive).

[GhostHawk]

I hate to see the day it gets that bad here, but it is a good skill set to have in the toolbox IMO.

While I have not robbed shotshells for powder (sitting on 16 lbs of Red Dot) I have swapped a couple boxes of loads out.

Cheap walmart federal 7.5 shot 100 packs sell for 24$ and change.

Cut off the top, save the shot for a rainy day, insert a Lee 7/8 oz slug, add overshot card, marked S for slug and glue into place with some thinned white glue.

Have not made it to the range with them yet but they cause no problems cycling through my Rem 870 smoothbore. Also mexican matched 1 box of buckshot pretty much the same way.

[Shiloh]

Also being a small case as 9mm is, it is very sensitive to powder charge and bullet depth. This is no way to start your reloading career. Get manuals, follow them, be safe.

Sage advice. Manuals are available and cheap. There is load data available from powder distributors.
Use it.

Shiloh

[HangFireW8]

Scavenging shotgun shells for powder and lead is completely safe as I started it on a regular basis.
I live in an latin country in South America where powder is not legally availlable but all other reloading components yes. So scavenging is the only way there is to reload in my country.

Welcome to the board, AJG! That's quite a good first post.

While I don't recommend it for beginners at all, I've bought pull down powder from the usual sources and used it in things they don't provide loads for, and that's really no different from what we're talking about here. You might say, no, the wholesaler provides me with some minimal amount of information on loads or powder speed, like "a little slower than Red Dot" or "Use 4895 but reduce by weight 15%" and, as always, "work up". Well, it is the same, because I have a reference load to work from - the shotshell I pulled it down from.

I have pulled down a few from a pile of shotshells given to me by an aging sportsman, and am keeping the pile primarily as a secondary reloading supply (and secondarily if I have a primary need for a bunch of shotshells). 12 gauge is a big hunk of ammo, a typical 1-1/4oz bird shot load has enough powder and lead to feed 4 9mm 124gr rounds, maybe 5 if going to 110grain boolits in light loads.

If you weigh the powder and shot and measure the powder volume involved, and know your shotshell reloading, it's not hard to back figure what speed powder you are working with, and then work up loads accordingly.

Just like the rest of reloading, you make it, so you're responsible for it. Like I said, I don't recommend it for beginners. If I couldn't buy powder, though, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment.

[fredj338]

Old thread but thought I would chime in. Is it safe to scavenge sg powder for pistol use, sure if you know what you are doing. In a SHTF situation, unused sg shells, like 16ga or 20ga, could be pulled down, powder for 4-5 9mm, & the lead melted for bullets. You could get a load dialed in in as little as 10rds using a chrono, start with Bullseye data & work up in 1/10gr increments. Not much diff than working with a new powder & no published data. Just not something I want to do as an every day thing. Keep enough powder on hand so you can shoot carefree for 2-3yrs is the best solution.

[AJG]

Thanks Hangfirew8 for your Invitation.

While I am still waiting for my reloading Equipment for 38 spl/357 mag I became quiete profficient in reloading 9mm Luger scavenging shotshells. Till now I have made about 175 reloads and relaoading has become a bit boring so nice everything is working. I ordered an RCBS die set (taper die, not roll crimp. I prefer taper crimp since it supposed makes Shells last longer when the metal is not bent each reload. The crimp groove on the bullet can be used as lube groove when taper crimp is used instead roll crimp) for 38 spl/357 and I ordered lots of Lee molds (a 124 grain Truncated Cone for 9mm, a 140 grain SWC for 38spl/357mag, a 57.5 cal round ball mold for Buck&Ball for 20 ga, a #4 buckshot mold and an Lee mold caliber 31.5 for #1 buckshot for 12 ga as well an Lee 7/8 oz slug mold for 12 ga). In the future I will order as well an 105 grain SWC Lee mold for 38spl/357mag in order to save lead since I realize each shotshell has about 25 grain powder and 490 grain lead so powder is enough there for 5 reloads but with an 140 grain Semi Wad Cutter I have not enough lead to melt in for not even 4 shots. Till now I collected wheelwheigths but demand for lead rose locally and half of the wheelweigths I realised are zinc, aluminum or iron so they are useless (today I melted abou 11 Kg of wheelweigths and realised this Problem of Zn, Al and Fe non melting weigths. Nevertheless I got 10 Kg of supposed lead Ingots which will give about 1071 bullets of 140 grain). I hope all was melting is really lead and nothing else.
As well I am going to empty birdshot Shells to transform the lead into Buck&Ball (George Washington) loads. 12 ga 7/8 oz slug behind a few 31.5 cal (up to the original 1 oz 1/8 load) #1 buckshot for 12 ga (with rifled choke or modified) and for 20 ga one cal 57.5 (cal 58 musket round ball) behind a few #4 buckshot balls (again just up to original load of 1 oz 1/8). Locally hog hunting is still done (ist not an normal hog but an so called wild pecari which is native here although decimated since nobody respects hunting seasons here and just Shooting all they can).
As well in order to Experiment with 38spl/357mag reloads I purchased an Pietta model 1873 in 357 Magnum Revolver (actually imported and assembled by Heritage in the USA but Pietta told me it is entirely made in Italy and the only difference between their other models and those from Cabelas, Cimmarron, etc is that they are assembled by Heritage). So I hope that is a Quality Revolver and Long Lasting since locally its Price (was on sale) is 700$ while in the US These can be had for about max 400$ (so you see all things are doubling at least here but normally have the triple of the Price if not more). If the Thing breaks, no warranty (throw away and buy new).
For example one 9mm costs locally 4000 Pesos and one 357 Magnum around 6200 Pesos. I calculated one 9mm (with cast bullet) will cost me about 1200 Pesos and one lead cast and reloaded scavenging shotshells 357 Magnum cartridge will cost me about 1500 Pesos (if used 6 grains on Titegroup or Unique equivalent powder of the shotshells). One shotshell costs about 3000 pesos and gives 5 9mm loads and about 4 full power 357 mag loads being 38 spl more cost effective. That is about 75% to 80% savings (huge amount). I just recommend scavenging shotshells since at least locally it is the only alternative and seems to be very cost effective (for example the brasilian CBC powder is about 15$ for 100 gram which translates to 68$ per Pound. It is not availlable legally but Price can be found on the Internet) even more than buying powder if we could do it.
I have a question (if anybody has experience with this): The Lee 105 grain Diameter .358 semi wadcutter lead bullet: can I shoot it with 9mm? (it seems to say something like "works fine with 9mm Luger" on Lee Webpage but I am worried about the other 9mm molds being .356 Diameter and this one is .358 Diameter). All my cast bullets are going to be lubed with Lithium grease (automobil grease), Petroleum jelly or Vaseline (I have no experience yet in this matter yet).

[salpal48]

Looks like another brainstorm in the works

[Wayne Smith]

Thanks Hangfirew8 for your Invitation.

While I am still waiting for my reloading Equipment for 38 spl/357 mag I became quiete profficient in reloading 9mm Luger scavenging shotshells. Till now I have made about 175 reloads and relaoading has become a bit boring so nice everything is working. I ordered an RCBS die set (taper die, not roll crimp. I prefer taper crimp since it supposed makes Shells last longer when the metal is not bent each reload. The crimp groove on the bullet can be used as lube groove when taper crimp is used instead roll crimp) for 38 spl/357 and I ordered lots of Lee molds (a 124 grain Truncated Cone for 9mm, a 140 grain SWC for 38spl/357mag, a 57.5 cal round ball mold for Buck&Ball for 20 ga, a #4 buckshot mold and an Lee mold caliber 31.5 for #1 buckshot for 12 ga as well an Lee 7/8 oz slug mold for 12 ga). In the future I will order as well an 105 grain SWC Lee mold for 38spl/357mag in order to save lead since I realize each shotshell has about 25 grain powder and 490 grain lead so powder is enough there for 5 reloads but with an 140 grain Semi Wad Cutter I have not enough lead to melt in for not even 4 shots. Till now I collected wheelwheigths but demand for lead rose locally and half of the wheelweigths I realised are zinc, aluminum or iron so they are useless (today I melted abou 11 Kg of wheelweigths and realised this Problem of Zn, Al and Fe non melting weigths. Nevertheless I got 10 Kg of supposed lead Ingots which will give about 1071 bullets of 140 grain). I hope all was melting is really lead and nothing else.
As well I am going to empty birdshot Shells to transform the lead into Buck&Ball (George Washington) loads. 12 ga 7/8 oz slug behind a few 31.5 cal (up to the original 1 oz 1/8 load) #1 buckshot for 12 ga (with rifled choke or modified) and for 20 ga one cal 57.5 (cal 58 musket round ball) behind a few #4 buckshot balls (again just up to original load of 1 oz 1/8). Locally hog hunting is still done (ist not an normal hog but an so called wild pecari which is native here although decimated since nobody respects hunting seasons here and just Shooting all they can).
As well in order to Experiment with 38spl/357mag reloads I purchased an Pietta model 1873 in 357 Magnum Revolver (actually imported and assembled by Heritage in the USA but Pietta told me it is entirely made in Italy and the only difference between their other models and those from Cabelas, Cimmarron, etc is that they are assembled by Heritage). So I hope that is a Quality Revolver and Long Lasting since locally its Price (was on sale) is 700$ while in the US These can be had for about max 400$ (so you see all things are doubling at least here but normally have the triple of the Price if not more). If the Thing breaks, no warranty (throw away and buy new).
For example one 9mm costs locally 4000 Pesos and one 357 Magnum around 6200 Pesos. I calculated one 9mm (with cast bullet) will cost me about 1200 Pesos and one lead cast and reloaded scavenging shotshells 357 Magnum cartridge will cost me about 1500 Pesos (if used 6 grains on Titegroup or Unique equivalent powder of the shotshells). One shotshell costs about 3000 pesos and gives 5 9mm loads and about 4 full power 357 mag loads being 38 spl more cost effective. That is about 75% to 80% savings (huge amount). I just recommend scavenging shotshells since at least locally it is the only alternative and seems to be very cost effective (for example the brasilian CBC powder is about 15$ for 100 gram which translates to 68$ per Pound. It is not availlable legally but Price can be found on the Internet) even more than buying powder if we could do it.
I have a question (if anybody has experience with this): The Lee 105 grain Diameter .358 semi wadcutter lead bullet: can I shoot it with 9mm? (it seems to say something like "works fine with 9mm Luger" on Lee Webpage but I am worried about the other 9mm molds being .356 Diameter and this one is .358 Diameter). All my cast bullets are going to be lubed with Lithium grease (automobil grease), Petroleum jelly or Vaseline (I have no experience yet in this matter yet).

If you look in the lube section you will find many recipes that are more than adequate and easy to make. If you know a machinist or can get to know one many things can be made that will help your progress. If you are serious about casting a lubesizer should be on your list, the machinist can make the dies if necessary.

[LUCKYDAWG13]

I see a lot of pistol powder out there now start looking for it

[AJG]

Dear Luckydawg13 and John Wayne,

Remember: I am NOT located in Northamerica. So I can not shop for powders and other supplies.
Powder is NOT commercially availlable where I am located so scavenging shotshells for powder and lead is the ONLY alternative for someone located in Southamerica for reloading. But it is a feasable alternative. Reloading supplies (except powder) are commercially availlable (like primers) but powder is strictly forbidden by law (even black powder). However they may Change law in the future.
As well I detected each shotshell brand has another powder so for example the spanish (from Spain) brand Saga has powder similar to Unique as I stated previously (pistol cycles reliably with 4.3 grains of that powder). But I realised the argentinian shotshell brand Orbea has an powder with quicker burn because the pistol cycles reliably by 3.9 grains so that gets Close to reloading data for Titegroup. With that issue it is allways a must to work up the loads (but all shotgun loads generally are around Unique or burn a bit quicker. About allways similar powder if powder weigth of shotshells are similar).

Yes I guess I have to order an Lee sizing die for 9mm, 357 mag/38spl. I just did not want to destroy the nice form the Lee molds throw the bullets when I resize (it destroys the lube grooves on an tumble lube design and obviously damages drive bands and grooves).
But anybody has experience Shooting the Lee 105 grain 358 Diameter SWC "as cast" trough an 9mm pistol (without resizing)? If possible I want to shoot the bullets without resizing.

[dondiego]

If you find 12 gauge shotshells with payloads over 1 and one eighth ounces, they will most likely contain a slower burn rate powder. Those shells labeled "target" or with shot weights at 1 ounce or less will most likely contain a faster burning powder. I wish that I could send you a pound of Bullseye powder as I just bought an 8 pound keg. Good luck to you!

[AJG]

Dear Dondiego, thanks for your Kind offer of sending me some powder but I will not induce you to smuggeling (although you could send it to my mail forewarder in Miami).

I guess it is better to live with my Situation (no powder allowed by law) as "every challenge is another opportunity"! If we used to live under These circumstances we certainly will manage to live under USSR type rulings or other restrictive governenmets (like Antichrist for those of you who are Christians; as I am Christian as well). So happy exercise regards the Reloading Sports (thats why reloading is called a "Sport" I guess).

Yes the Orbea is 1 oz 1/8 (faster burning powder. No data whatsoever on the box except it has 32 grams of shot) and the Saga is 524 grain or 34 grams and actually states on their box it uses single base smokeless CSB powders (it is a French-Spanish powder), has a velocity of 440 meter por second and a pressure of 665 Kg/cm2 (sorry no imperial measures). The Saga kicks a whole lot more.

Regards lube. Locally no beeswax nor any Kind of Alox is availlable (candles are availlable). But yes Vaseline, Petroleum Jelly and Lithium and calcium based grease is availlable (those greases withstand very high temperatures and are made by Texaco Oil company).

I recently bought a box of 500 12 ga shotshells (orbea) for reloading at about 0.55$ each (yes over here we pay 0.55$ for each 12 ga shotshell out of dove hunting season. In dove hunting season you are lucky if you get them for 0.48$ each). For example (factory american eagle, PMC, Winchester, etc in american dollars) 9mm costs here 0.73 US$ per round, 38 spl costs 1$, 357 Magnum costs 1.2$, 308 Winchester costs about 2.73 US$, 44 Magnum costs about 1.82 US$; and those are the cheapest rounds of each caliber. Considered that each 9mm reload costs me 0.22 US$ and each 357 Magnum reload (cast bullet) costs me 0.27$. You see the difference (those are actual Prices in US Dollars)? It is a worthed reloading here even more than in Northamerica.
Resellers and representatives make locally imported ammo from the USA very expensive (about 3 times the cost in the USA). So reloading is locally even more economical as in the USA (over here we do not have any argue about if reloading is save anything or not). You see we have to reload. If we dont soon we will not be able to affort Shooting. That is why I got into reloading.

Have a nice day!

[dudel]

The only time I've salvaged shotgun components was when I was making shotshell for 38Spl. I wanted some #9 shot, and didn't need a 25# bag. I bought some shells with #9 shot, and salvaged the shot and wads. The wads were cut into overpowder wads. The powder (high in Nitrogen) was scattered on the lawn. The primers soaked in oil and dumped.

Bad idea using an unknown powder for loads. Especially so if you are just starting out. I'm seeing lots of powder available at Bass Pro, and they ship free to the store with no hazmat fees. Find another reloader that's local to you and split the hazmat fees. Someone might trade you some bullets or lead for powder. There are plenty of safe options out there if you look for them. When starting out, it's a good idea to follow a reputable reloading manual to the letter. Recommend you stay away from max loads till you get a bit of experience.

Reloading accidents don't do any of us any good.

[AJG]

Dear dudel,

You say <<There are plenty of safe options out there if you look for them>>. You mean "out there IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA". Oh yes in the USA there are lots of Options, but remmber I AM NOT LOCATED IN NORTHAMERICA.
If you really mean in my given Country in Southamerica I can aquire legally powder please let me know where.

All I can tell you out of experience is till now it is completely safe to scavenge powder and lead from shotshells for reloading pistol-Revolver cartridges. IT IS SAFE, as I have proven it in reality.

I loaded yesterday 19 9mm cartridges with Orbea (type Titegroup powder) powder to just 3.8 grains and they cicle fine. I shot 4 rounds and had a stovepipe but this was probably due to using my folding foreward pistol grip I have mounted on the S&W SD9VE pistol. Yes locally we can Mount legally a pistol grip on the picantinn rail of the pistol in order to hold it with 2 Hands. I mounted an rail Mount on the pistol on which on top I mounted an Mini Mag ligth and underneath I mounted a folding UTG pistol grip. Like that it turns out to be an very good PDW (in the US it will be an SBR as I understood) with sufficient weigth for such an ligth plastic pistol (the pistol as is is way to ligth for me since recoil is less manageable).
With These 3.8 grain loads all 4 FMJ 115 bullets penetrated 2 hardwood Sheets (and rebounced on the 3rd sheet) of 0.7 Inch totalling 1.4 Inch hardwood Penetration from 25 meters distance. It shoots about half a foot low but Groups where about 2 inches with one Flyer.
I detected this pistol shoots with Unique type powder rigth Point of aim but with faster burning powder like type Titegroup it shoots allways low regardless of the powder Charge.
Now I am waiting for the rest of my casting Equipment Arrival.

[dudel]

Dear dudel,

You say <<There are plenty of safe options out there if you look for them>>. You mean "out there IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA". Oh yes in the USA there are lots of Options, but remmber I AM NOT LOCATED IN NORTHAMERICA.
If you really mean in my given Country in Southamerica I can aquire legally powder please let me know where.

AJG.

I grew up in Latin America (Argentina, Chile, Colombia, Panama, Venezuela, Guatemala to name some). I know the difficulty of getting things down there. When I lived in Argentina, there were some components that were hard to find; but not impossible. Actually it was easier to get loaded ammunition from the police and/or military. You just needed to know the right people. (that's just the way it works down there).

In any event, there's really no need for the OP to go through the trials that you go through, because HE lives in the US where he CAN find powder.

Please don't make your problems, his problems. So where is the OP going to find Orbea shotshells? What does that translate to for Winchester AA?

I'm glad you found a solution that works for you. But making rounds from unknown powder is not the safest thing one can do.

[AJG]

Dear dudel,

Thanks for your Kind reply. Glad to hear you are familiar with Southamerican countries (speak the allways hidden sudden corruption of any social and governamental structures).
I don not know what do you mean with OP. Please explain the concept of OP.
Components actually are easy to find here but they have to be imported son an half year shipping delay is normal. For example my local gun shop now has no factory bullets for 357 mag/38spl (since they say there are no reloaders here and so they aint bringing it. They will bring it actually but it is hear just about next year).
I start to stock on primers since all other supplies I can get locally once I have my bullet molds. Here you have to stock huge amounts of supplies because they are not allways availlable. But that is not a Problem.

That is rigth. It would be easier to get loaded ammo through Police Forces. But one Problem: If they like your gun there is a possibility they seize it (confiscate) under any excuse and carry it themselves or sell it. It is not uncommon Police are selling their Revolvers (mostly 38 spl I guess) in order to afford multiple filliation judicial processes for recognition of paternaty (they have multiple love relationship and soon as a girlfriend gets pregnant she is suing him for monetary Support and so Police is forced to sell their weapons for Alimentation of children). So it is not uncommon Police has no weapon, less they have pistols. Locally Police has to buy from own pocket their weapons (just because if the governement would supply the weapon each Police would request each weak an replacement sidearm because they start to traffic with the duty weapons). So that is implied. If you have an better weapon as the Police you better hide it. Even less I would buy ammo from Police since every opportunity they would ask for my gun papers.
<<Just Need to know the rigth People>> is locally an Slogan for corruption, trafficking and an General receipt for Trouble. I ask already lots of People but it seems gun restrictions are sanctioned from highest ranks of governement to quench possible revolutions (2% of poblation posesses here 85% of the land and riches. Mostly cattle owners. The rest you guess how it is). Guns are restricted for rich People only (who can afford).

I just wanted contribute a Little my own Situation specially open eyes and a window of US citizens of other countries Situation regards reloading. I just wanted to state that as well in the US YOU CAN SCAVENGE SHOTSHELLS FOR RELOADING SAFELY.

The big Advantage we have over here is that it is in any way cost effective if you reload. If you reload you allways save Money. Even with 9mm, 38 spl, 25 acp, etc. More Money is saved if you would download to reduced loads 308 Winchester (to about 2000 fps and 1200 lbs/ft) or 30-30 Win (to about 1600 fps and 900 lbs/ft). But that is more dangerous because of risk of Detonation. We will see this in the future nevertheless.

[HangFireW8]

OP is the Original Poster, the person who started this thread.

[victorfox]

AJG, friend I hear you and keep warning our American friends about the democrats seizing the power forever.

I love in Brazil and our situation is quite similar to hours, maybe worse in some aspectos (I'd love to have a 9mm - forbidden here - or a 357 heavily restricted).

Let's keep exchanging ideas,we too walk the extra miles to keep our Guns shooting . Best regards, take care.

[AJG]

Dear victorfox,

I am located then near you. If I just could get some CBC powder I would be happy. But again I will not induce somebody to smuggeling.
I saw on some brasilian Lojas CBC type 216 (if I remember correct has a burn time of 0.35 miliseconds) powder 100 grams for 52 Reais (Sem Juros). That is much more than in the US powder is priced but at least something. I would not be surprised if Orbea shotshells have CBC powder in them. At least it works flawlessly (powder Looks flat square flake).

yes I saw on the CBC burn rate adn load data paper I downloaded (CBC Informtivo tecnico Nr 44 polvoras CBC) that you are not allowed 9mm nor 357 mag. In Brazil you can go only till 380 acp in pistols (no 9mm nor 45 acp) and 38 spl +p in revolvers. Actually an 380 acp is more economical to reload (3.1 grains of CBC 216 powder states on that paper) and recoils less. 9mm is about Maximum recoil I would want (I actually weigthed up with pistol Mount, flashlight and pistol foregrip my 9mm pistola de plastico in order to reduce recoil). Now it recoils a bit more like an 22 Magnum. If 357 Mag is recoiling too much for me I just dowload 357 mag cases to 38 spl Levels.
In Brasil all Long gun calibers are not allowed all the way from 223 to 7mm rem mag. Locally where I live they banned 223, 308, 50 cal (any. 50 cal muzzleloader not allowed) for being Military calibers.
But I see 44-40 Winchester is allowed in Brasil. So get that (I bet Taurus makes a cheap gun in that caliber). On Gallery of Guns there are a few 44-40 Win Lever Actions but they are sinfull expensive (I would not be Abel to afford them).
Fortunately you are not restricted on espingardas (shotguns) and their ammo as I see on that paper.

So just set up for relading your 380 acp to +p loads and your 38 spl. That is all you really Need and even is economical for reload. Get yourself a bunch of 12 ga shotshells, do not take boose (alcohol) and know what you are doing and start scavenging shotshells for powder and lead and happy reloading your 380 acp and 38 spl. It should be a viable Option for you as Long they are not restricting the amount of shotshells one Person can buy at once.

[victorfox]

AJG, you're quite correct.

Main problem is reloading anything but shotshells is that you can't do it without an Army license. Without that you would commit a serious felony. Not to mention you simply can't buy or find tools and components to buy without thr permit because you have to buy directly.from the manufacturer or importing with an international permit.

I said this in another post, given the restrictions we face, if I could at least handload I'd buy a 38spl revolver + carbine combo and be happy. I bought a nominal 410 revolver because it's allowed and I can handload with a few tools...

the 44-40 newer rifles suffer from ridiculous accuracy. Factory ammo is sized about .427" and the guns and bored .432/433" (and taurus have some loose tolerances...) because they use the same .44 magnum barrels and bore the chambers for the 44-40. Also 44-40 is one of the most expensive we have here so it's not affordable to shoot and quantities would be restricted to 50rd/year without the army license, which is both expensive and take about a year to get, not mentioning the fact they can simply refuse to issue it... I'm considering getting this license in the future but for now I don't have the financial means.

The 216 powder in fact is my staple powder and I figured it burns at about winchester 231 speed. we at least can get it, the 250 (fast fast fast) and 219 (tad slower bordering Unique burn speed). I'm reloading .410 for a taurus judge and 12 for shotgun.

Seems we both have some advantages and drawbacks over each other, firearm law and component wise. I'm sorry for you but at least you're on the look out for options outside the box. Let's keep in touch and exchange experiences.

Best regards, amigo