for you machinists

[georgeld]

Buckshot:
yep, that's it.
I learned the hardway when something interupted me when chambering one with it. Had been cutting it turning the chuck by hand on the belt. When I came back out all strung out. Shot some oil in it and turned it on. two seconds later it as smoked up. Temper was gone. don't think it was right to start with as it kept dulling.

But, with a cutting torch and bucket of cold water it's like glass now, maybe not quite that hard. but, it doe's hold an edge now.

Back when I was a kid, Dad sent me to a rancher where we hunted elk. Bad influence because he got me to poaching elk with him every summer. But, I sure learned a bucnh about making things with little in the way of tools other than a hand cranked coal fired forge. Of course I was the 'cranker" many a shift. We not only made a bunch of rock drills for dynamite drilling with single and double jacks. But, a 4" wide, half inch thick, 4ft dia "iron tired wagon" for hauling pole's out of the woods. I cranked for hours on that forge while he hammered it into rings. THEN hammered the welds together as neither of us could arc weld then, and he didn't own a torch. Oh man what we could have done so much easier with the tools I've got now.

IF I had half the money he left to the local dog pound when he died I'd have a bunch of fine machine's in this dandy shop I've built with salvage bricks and steel.

Buck, you mention 'left over box" hehe! I've got two "stantions' under my bench 2'x40" full of 'shorts', 18-48" filled up. Plus another half full of shorter pcs than that. The long stuff, full 20' much of it on a rack above that was so over loaded I had to weld legs on the arms as it started to bend down. Three rack/shelve's about 3' wide and foot deep with steel. There has to be $10,-15,000 worth up there.

Everytime I went after steel, I 'd get a few lengths of "other stuff" for 'stock".
IT's too bad I've torn my back up now that I have the shop and stocked up decently. Maybe the next guy will get some good out of it and all the tools from a lifetime of 'gathering'.

[Rayber]

Wow!!! I've missed this section of the forum before I signed up. What a find.
When is big too big. I haven't used a lathe in 35 years and only a few times then. Now I need one for a some gunsmith chores I'll get into in the forum later. I can get help with learning the lathe, that shouldn't be a problem (I hope)
When is big too big??????
I have a chance to get an older lath thats in really good shape. It's covered with dust from being in a wood shop and covered in oil but NO rust at all. The guys wants less then the made in Chine machines at Harbor Freight. It's a LaBlond17 with a 3jaw and 4 jaw Chuck. It has a new 5hp motor on it. It weighs more then 1000 lbs...he's guessing, but I can move it.
He's 30 minutes form my house. I can't even put it in my shop because I have a wood floor. I can put it in a friends garage and he will use it also. I really want this big old machine. I have several small projects. I have to drill and ream a sizing die for a wildcat project I started in 1975. I finally have the time and ALL the parts.
You guys are doing this small detailed work so I thought I'd ask your opinions.
Thanks
Ray

[Jon K]

Rayber,

BUY IT!!!, Good lathe, Nothing you can't do with that, for gunwork. If you pass on it you'll regret it for years to come. And whatever you do, don't buy an underpowered machine and try to overwork it, trying to make due. Spent countless hours on them, made to last, and reliable as they come.

Jon

[PatMarlin]

I passed on a great lathe deal once..

[oneokie]

Buy it and never look back.

[Buckshot]

When is big too big. It's a LaBlond17 with a 3jaw and 4 jaw Chuck. It has a new 5hp motor on it. It weighs more then 1000 lbs...he's guessing, but I can move it.
I really want this big old machine. I have several small projects.
Ray

.............Weighs more then 1000 lbs!? My 11x36 Logan weighs 1100 lbs so that 17" LeBlond weighs at least 3,000 lbs and proably a bit more depending on the length of it's bed. How much less then a "China" machine is he wanting? Whatever it cost, be prepared to pay that much and more to get it tooled up if it doesn't already come with a bunch.

Does it have a steady? Priced a steady rest for a LeBlond? If it doesn't, you'll need one for barrel work, and hopefully it has a 36" bed. Probably has a 2.5" hole through the spindle so if it has a 24" bed you can easily stick a barrel through it, but you'll need to build or buy a spider for the off side. With that 5 horse motor and lathe you'll be able to flat get down and peel some steel off. It's probably 240/480v 3~ so hopefully a rotary phase converter comes with it.

A metal lathe in a wood shop environment normally doesn't do too well. Not that wood is so abrasive, but it's attracted to oil and a well cared for lathe is usually well oiled. The exposed bed being the most obvious. However, wood dust will infiltrate though some mighty tiny places. In the big LeBlonds as in lathes of any size, the apron is 'wet', meaning it carries it's own lube supply for the various gears and shafts for long and power cross feeds.

Also on occasion the apron had a pump and when the apron was moved up and down the bed, or the cross slide was used, this pump moved oil from the sump in the apron through small ID pipes to feed oil under the carriage to the bed and cross slide dovetails.

I'm not saying don't get it. I'm saying that if it checks out, ie: runs quietly and smoothly and the controls work, etc be prepared to get into any and all places that carried, stored or transported oil to the working parts, and to be prepared to have to clean all these pipes, and sumps.

.................Buckshot

[creekwalker]

Buckshot has done a very good job of explaining the ups and downs of a used lathe purchase as well as the hidden costs too. I’ve recently purchased a used South Bend 9A lathe with a 3’ bed, but w/o the steady rest and extra tools and I’ll be carefully shopping around for these items. Before I made this purchase I spoke with the seller at length and viewed photos of the lathe as well as researched its history. Along with this I researched the lathe to determine when it was made and spoke with several other knowledgeable persons about it, showing them the photos also.
I was provided with good advice as well as instructions on what to look for when I inspected the lathe and what to ask additional questions about. Then I took a day to drive down and view it in person as well as get a better background understanding of the seller. So after all of this what did I end up with? It is a very well used lathe in good overall condition but cosmetically terrible looking, which set up unattended for a number of years and acquired a light dusting of surface rust, was filthy dirty and all moving surfaces completely dried up due to the absence of lubricants.
This is where my willingness to get my hands dirty and spend time learning how to disassemble and reassemble the lathe has come into play. I have a lathe worth far more in used parts pricing than I paid for it, but will also be worth many times its purchase price once I put it back into service. While I of course am willing to take on such a project others may not have the time and means to do so themselves, in essence it’s an individual choice.

Creekwalker

[Rayber]

GREAT!!!
I had to work and didn't get back until tonight. Buckshot, well, all of you have really been helpful.
I'm calling the guy in the morning. I did get a better weight estimate. 1800 lbs, still seems light, but we can drag it on to a trailer. Total length is 8 ft. There's plenty of bed. No steady, the owner has one he was building but never constructed the mounts. Maybe I can get him to help me finish it. The lathe is running. He has 220 v single phase to the shop. His last job was opening up bores in shotguns to install "Turkey" chokes. A picture is a thousand words. I wasn't going to get froggy posting being a newbee but ....




She is old and dirty but she runs, the rails are smooth. The controls were stiff because it was COLD but they were smooth. I plan on making a cover for the expoed gears if he doesn't have one laying around.
Unless I hear otherwise I guess I'll get a couple gallons of kerosene and start scrubbing. That is of course you guys don't change your minds about grabbing this old doll. I can get my money back in scrap iron. (Chuckle)
You just can imagine the thrill I got when I saw all these replies.
Thank you for you thoughts and concerns. This next adventure is not a scary as it was 3 days ago.
Ray

[Rayber]

I hope these photos don't break any rules. Any smaller and they would be of no value.

[Rayber]

Last one..................

[georgeld]

Neighbor has a huge old flat belt drive lathe he's tried to sell me for $500. I've got a nice well built shop, but, it's just too big for my shop, or my use. IF I was younger and in better shape I'd get it anyway, then also buy a smaller one for small work.

I'd like very much to have a 10-12"x40" power feed , brand don't matter much. I've got one of those crappy H/F junkers now that won't hold a cut over 3" without gouging, or at least tapering a bunch. It needs new pads under the set screws on the tailstock and fine adjustments I haven't been able to accomplish, or find material.

BUT: I've made quite a few small parts on both the lathe and mill that were rather intricate and got 'em made to within .001". Nothing very fine like I used to make all the time on a brand new Hardinge Chucker when I was in the machine shop. I'd about give 3" of my weinie for one of those in the condition it was when I left there. They'd bought it brand new for me about a yr before. To replace 14"x48" Atlas I think it was that was real sloppy. I'd even like to have that one now.

Married life and not having a shop til ten yrs ago and no money to buy bigger tools I have had to pass up quite a few good buys on lathe's and mills. Next major expense for the shop should be to pour a floor in there and get away from the dirt.
Anyway!!! Buy it and a hunk of 3/4" plate to deck it on big enough to spread the wt around for you wood floor. Just make sure you've got structure enough under it. OR pour a slab under that area would be a good thing to consider. Even if you can't pour the whole floor. Just a pad would be good. Sink support holes down 3-4 feet on each corner so the pad don't tilt over the years and you'll have a good set up.
Good luck,

[Rayber]

georgeld...Time zones ....I didn't think anyone would see this tonight..LOL
It's going in my buds garage for now. He wants to use it also. There's vague plans to add 12 feet on the shop for lumber storage. I have access to a good supply of American Walnut and the stock makers are drooling. I can get the trunks with the really good cuts. I need a place to store and dry it. With the LeBlonde jumping in the picture I'm already leaning towards a concrete floor or at least a pad. This would bring the lathe home yet keep it out of the WOOD shop. Funny , My significant other said I didn't have enough room for the lathe. This is like permission to do the addition. Wonder why I married her 44 years ago. (She also thought my venturing down to Troy, NC to one of the 12 colleges that have a Degree course in Gun Smithing might be a good idea for retiring.) NO !! None of you can have her.....
Thanks for the comments and advice.
Ray

[Buckshot]

.............Rayber, First of all, pictures are great. The more the merrier, and as you found you might have to do more then one post to get them in. I'm jealous. Especially about all the fun you'll be having . If the current owner has upped his weight estimate to 1800 lbs he's about half right. That's about what the bed would weigh, and that's conservative.

Here's your lathe: http://www.lathes.co.uk/leblond/page2.html and http://www.lathes.co.uk/leblond/index.html

Tony's homepage: http://www.lathes.co.uk/index.html

First thing you'll need is a manual. Badly.

You owe this to yourself, your partner and this fine old machine. My suggestion, and this is what I would do, and would look forward to doing is to not only tear it down, but restore it rather then merely slap it all back together. Doing this will take probably twice as long as a simple teardown and put together would. However, the pride of ownership let alone the substantial increase in value would be worth the time and effort.

Systematicly disassembleing the lathe from the top down and placing units and assemblies in their own boxes until you can get to them will simplify things immensely. Re-assembly naturally would be from the bottom up. Imagine what it will look like with a good paint job over freshly prepped parts! Polished up brass plates, and polished bright steel handles and handwheels with gleaming red or black spokes.

It may sound foolish, but a good looking well kept up machine will add to the user's desire and ability to produce quality work. A raggedy, filthy dirty lump that looks half abandoned with tools scattered all over just doesn't build much desire to do much of anything worthwhile. I don't know about you but I can see the old girl in all her original glory. Back in the days when we actually used to be able to build stuff in this country. THAT is what you have a piece of there. American industrial production and know how.

Takes LOTS of pictures!!!!!

..............Buckshot

[georgeld]

IF you 'plank' those logs, or even if you don't.
Make sure to tar the end's heavily to keep the checking under control.
They'll cure a lot sooner if you plank them.
but, make sure to cut them at least 3" thick and 6" wide, not less than about 40" long.

That way there's plenty of stock to turn from and move the pattern around to miss
knots, bug holes, and other crap.

Fellow in Md did the same thing about ten yrs ago with a 28" cherry tree that died and
fell over in his yard. Gave me three blanks. One turned out fine for my Sako. I ruined one
trying to get the shape started and he begged me to send the other one back. So I got
one stock, but, it's nice.

Good luck with it. Had a wife of 29yrs that "allowed" me to get all the tools I wanted.
Figured if I had tools, she could work me to death. Turned out it was her that went first.
Life happens as they say, right?

IF she's got a sister with the same ideas, ship her out west ok?

Take it from me, no matter how big a shop you build, it's NOT big enough!! Half mile sq is good.

[Flinchrock]

You need to learn about leveling, and you need a 12" Starret precision level, accurate to .0005 in a foot, a carpenters level just ain't gonna cut it. Also, the leveling needs to be checked for about a month as the machine sets. If the machine isn't level the ways wil be twisted and you will NEVER gat a straight cut!

Go to Practical Machinist.com and you will learn more than you can stand!!

[PatMarlin]

Lord I was watching documentary's on the history of the 40's and WW2 last night and what this country produced with machines, and lathes was just staggering.

They (we) produced a fighter plane every 5 minuets at one point.

Supplied our allies with all the implements of war too on a "Cash and Carry" basis only.

How could they let this country get so screwed up today?..

[jlchucker]

Rayber, when you tear this machine down, you may want to consider getting some new gibs made, and have, during the course of reassembly, all necessary scraping done--for bearing as well as alignment. Properly lubricated, scraped moving surfaces would likely wear for a longer time than you or I have left on a good machine tool such as this one. I used to work for Jones & Lamson, once a major producer of machine tools. That was in the 1980's. They were still making and furnishing parts for machines built at the turn of the 20th century, and still in use-even though the company's main focus had evolved to manufacture of modern NC equipment. A good machine repair outfit could tell you all about rescraping, if you don't know already.

[georgeld]

Buck, JLC:
I'd trade a huge OLD 1836 patent 18" table saw for a lathe.
Table's had new babbit bearings, about 4' sq.
I have the guide rail and fence too.
Has a 5hp 3ph and I'm in a single ph area.

Take down into three big hunks: motor, table, base each about 200lbs.
Adjustment screw boss has been broken off the pedistal, but, I've got the
screw with the piece yet. One carbide tipped blade that needs about 16 tips
replaced.

Any offers?? I took it away from an old farmer that had just got it and planned
to use it for a welding table!!! Yikes, can't have that fine machine be ruined by
welding and grinding.

[JSnover]

This always causes an argument, but I think it needs to be said; Flat is more important than level. Level is good, get it near as you can but if the machine isn't flat, that's when the ways will twist. If every machine had to be absolutely level for a straight cut, all those floating Navy machine shops would have been useless.
The reason it's worth noting is because a floor may not be flat or level. Most are close but 'no cigar' when it comes to precision leveling.
I've used a 1610 LeBlond for 10 years which was probably set up before I was born. It is not level. The boss (now deceased) forgot more about machining than I'll ever know and he set the machine up with a slight tilt so the coolant would run back to the drain more quickly. Last summer I had to rebuild the tailstock. Reassembled everything, mounted the test bar to check for taper over 24"....... There was a difference of .0002" end-to-end. NASA may need closer tolerances but I don't. The building is almost 60 years old, so all the concrete slabs cracked years ago as they settled. To the best of my knowledge no one has ever leveled the machinery to allow for this.
The way to set the machine up flat is to 'box the ways' with your precision level; take two measurements on each axis as far apart as you can and work the leveling bolts to get identical readings on your level.
Good luck and congrats, Rayber!

[PatMarlin]

Buck, JLC:
I'd trade a huge OLD 1836 patent 18" table saw for a lathe.
Table's had new babbit bearings, about 4' sq.
I have the guide rail and fence too.
Has a 5hp 3ph and I'm in a single ph area.

Take down into three big hunks: motor, table, base each about 200lbs.
Adjustment screw boss has been broken off the pedistal, but, I've got the
screw with the piece yet. One carbide tipped blade that needs about 16 tips
replaced.

Any offers?? I took it away from an old farmer that had just got it and planned
to use it for a welding table!!! Yikes, can't have that fine machine be ruined by
welding and grinding.

Be interested in seeing a pic of that beast George. As old as it is, it would have been run on flat belts back in it's day. Is any of that drive still there?

Pat-