Two pots off of one outlet?

[Patrick L]

Continuing with my threads on this new casting cabinet, the final thing I need to do has to do with power supply to the pots.

Is it too much draw to run two pots off of one outlet? As you can see from the first picture, there is an outlet about two feet away from the cabinet. Up till now I plugged my 20 lb pot into it, and the cord for the light/exhaust fan. Now I need to power two pots, and still the light/exhaust fan. I was planning on cutting about 3 feet off of a heavy duty extension cord (like one of the 14 gauge ones) leaving the plug end intact and running the bare end into the cabinet and installing an outlet box right inside. I would plug my pots into that box. Therefore, I would be plugging the power source for the cabinet outlet and the light/exhaust fan into the one wall outlet. Is this kosher? If I went to other outlets I would need extension cords, and besides the outlets in my basement are run in a series anyway, so the power all comes in in the same line.

Here's the cabinet (with only one pot in this photo) showing the wall outlet to the right


And here's my new tandem pot arrangement


I really know nothing about electrical stuff, especially in terms of draw etc. I figure if the circuit breaker doesn't pop everything's fine. Can any of you electrical types give me any guidance?

[pa_guns]

Hi

The simple answer is that if you aren't sure it's safe, don't do it.

Your circuit breakers are likely either 15 or 20 amp units.

Your wall socket may be the only thing on the circuit and it may be one of many things.

The heater on the pot is probably in the 700 to 800 watt range. It *could* be 1000 watts. At 800 watts it will pull about 7 amps off of 120 volts. Two pots will just barely *not* trip a 15 amp breaker. If there is anything else on the circuit you will pull more than the rated load.

There are a lot of very smart people who follow the "if the breaker does not trip, it's ok" theory. I have seen several fires come out of mistakes made this way.

Bob

[kodiak1]

I think you are just looking for aggrivation. If your breaker is at all weak it will trip.
You would be better off to find two plugins that are on seperate breakers and away you go.
My thought Ken.

[pa_guns]

Hi

From the pictures I'm guessing you are set up in the basement. Most breaker boxes are also in the basement. It should not cost a whole lot to put a pair of dedicated 20 amp / 120 volt circuits in to feed the casting operation. Best guess would be $100, but it could be more if things are a little crazy in the basement.

Bob

[PatMarlin]

If you run 12-2 or 12ga wire and a 20amp plug outlet with 20 amp breaker you'll be fine.

If the wire is 14-2 or 14ga wire, and a 15 amp plug outlet, you're under wired. Find the breaker in the panel and see what the wire size is typed on the jacket of the romex.

If it's 14-2 then you can't run the both on that circuit. If it's 12-2, then you can change the breaker and the outlet if they are not 20 amp, and safely run the 2 pots.

[Catshooter]

Actually, the simple answer is that if the breaker doesn't like, it'll trip. No harm, no foul.

Of course that is if everything is ok with your electrical system, from the outlet to the pole. If not, your results may vary.

Helpful, huh?


Cat

[MT Gianni]

A lot may depend on whether both pots are trying to melt at the same time or just maintaining temperature. Maintaing draws less amps than heating. Gianni

[PatMarlin]

I was gonna say contact Cat cause he's a pro.

I see he's already responded with his professional advice...

[NVScouter]

Hi

The simple answer is that if you aren't sure it's safe, don't do it.

Your circuit breakers are likely either 15 or 20 amp units.

Your wall socket may be the only thing on the circuit and it may be one of many things.

The heater on the pot is probably in the 700 to 800 watt range. It *could* be 1000 watts. At 800 watts it will pull about 7 amps off of 120 volts. Two pots will just barely *not* trip a 15 amp breaker. If there is anything else on the circuit you will pull more than the rated load.

There are a lot of very smart people who follow the "if the breaker does not trip, it's ok" theory. I have seen several fires come out of mistakes made this way.

Bob

Close, try again. But good overall advise.

700 Watts= 5.83333 Amps on 120V or 6.36 Amps on 110V
800 Watts= 6.66666 Amps on 120V or 7.22 Amps on 110V
1000Watts= 8.3333 Amps on 120V or 9.09 Amps on 100V

Depending on the actual incomming power to your come you can easily be pulling too much current for that CIRCUIT. An outlet is just part of the circuit, connected to that same outlet are up to 10 others that can be pulling power too. If the outlet only goes to one breaker you can pull up to the amount of current that outlet is rated to.

If you run 12-2 or 12ga wire and a 20amp plug outlet with 20 amp breaker you'll be fine.

If the wire is 14-2 or 14ga wire, and a 15 amp plug outlet, you're under wired. Find the breaker in the panel and see what the wire size is typed on the jacket of the romex.

If it's 14-2 then you can't run the both on that circuit. If it's 12-2, then you can change the breaker and the outlet if they are not 20 amp, and safely run the 2 pots.

Pat whats up with the 2 wire stuff? A 3 wire system (hot, neurtal, ground) is the Alternating current standard for the USA. Never go below 12GA wire for household current, so 12Ga or numericly lower like 10GA. So use 12-3 for 20A and lower current or 10-3 for up to 50A.

Actually, the simple answer is that if the breaker doesn't like, it'll trip. No harm, no foul.

Of course that is if everything is ok with your electrical system, from the outlet to the pole. If not, your results may vary.

Helpful, huh?

Cat

No way Jose.

Overloading a breaker with current once in a while sure, on a regular basis you are in for it. Breakers are meant to trip about 10 times in 5 years, everytime they trip they get weaker. So if a breaker trips a lot then best case you destroy a $50 breaker, worst case it doesnt trip and you have heat build up in your walls wiring. This could burn your place down.

Do the wiring correctly and dont sweat it in the middle of the night. Power is easy as long as the wiring, outlets, and circuit breakers match the load source.

[PatMarlin]

No offense sparky but 12-2 Romex is 3 wire. Hot (black) Nutral (white) Ground (bare paper wrapped copper wire).

10-3 Romex is 220v. 4 wires there.

Yes you have to take into consideration other items that are on the circuit. Older homes used 14-2 wire all the time for lights and lite drawing appliances.

[PatMarlin]

Also-

Unless you have an old panel like a Zinsco, your breakers aren't gonna be no $50. A newer panel that will take Cutler Hammer/Murray's for instance will be about $5 at home repo.

[NVScouter]

Ok Pat I see your an old timer.

12-2 is an older term for 3 wire usage since the ground was a "given"

Modern places call it like is and 12-3, 10-3 etc, 12-4, 10-4. But like Pat said it will be marked as 12-2 etc. This causes confusion if your talking to a HD contractor or a real electrician.

If you are going to buy breakers buy the good ones. That Home Depot cheap-o stuff doesnt cut it. A good quality breaker is $25-50 a breaker.

Happy Patty?

[PatMarlin]

Soory but I respectfully disagree.

12-2, 14-2, 10-2, is the standard marking for 3 wire Romex used for 110 volt wiring.

12-3, 10-3, and larger etc., is the standard marking for 4 wire Romex used in 220v systems wiring.

Unless markings have changed in the last year or so, that's what they read.

Nothing cheap about the Cutler Hammer typr breakers really. They meet current building code, and they work fine, and are good quality.

[MGySgt]

Modern places call it like is and 12-3, 10-3 etc, 12-4, 10-4......
Happy Patty?

I don't know where you are buying wire, but 12-3 has 4 wires in it. Red, Black, White and ground/bare - light 220 stuff or to alternate receptcals on a wall so that ones side by side are not on the same circuit. The Red and Black are both HOT.

14-3 is normally for 2 way lights switches. Bottom of the stairs/top of the stairs.

Go to home dupot or lowes and look at a container of 12-2 - at the end of it - Black, White, bare.

Patrick L - I would not cut down a 14 gauge extension cord to wirte a box inside of your casting ben. Use 12 gauge, you can buy it at Home depot or lowes and make your cord. 14 gauge is only good for 15 AMPS.

I would not want to run 2 pots off of 14 ga wire - I think that is looking for trouble.

Drew

[Patrick L]

Actually, my family are builders (not me personally, I was just the flunkie laborer during summer vacations) and we built my house. Ultimately, if I have to do something fancy it will cost me nothing. I'll call my brother and he'll come do it.

The outlets in the basement are wired with 12-2 (3 wire grounded) and are all in a line. Well, actually two lines. One is the outlets along the front wall and one is the ones on the back wall, where all of this fun is located. I know there is nothing plugged into the other outlets. The basement is one big workshop, and its not like I'm running the table saw, drill press, casting pots etc. all at once. They are on 20 amp breakers.

Here's what I think I'll do. In the short term, just to test drive this setup some more, I'll run the two pots and only the two pots off of the outlet to the right of the cabinet. There will be nothing else plugged in the entire line all the way to the sub panel box. I will run an extension cord from an outlet on the front of the house (different line.) This will power only the light and the exhaust fan. I will be present the entire time, so I don't feel uneasy about this.

In the long run, I think I will (by that I mean my brother will) run a separate, 12-2 line from the panel, with a 20 amp breaker, and I'll put another outlet right next to the existing one. That one will be for the casting cabinet only, so the cabinet will be powered by its own dedicated line. And when I say long run, I mean I'll have him do this some night this week.

How does that sound?

[PatMarlin]

Sounds to me like all you need to do is make sure the outlet is a 20amp rated, and the breaker on the circuit is a 20amp, and you are good to go.

[Mk42gunner]

Patrick,

The 20 lb Lee has a 700 watt heating element and the 10ponder has a 500 watt element.

I like your idea of a single line for your casting cabinet. Tell your brother that if he does a good enough job you won't steal the wheel wieghts from his truck for at least three weeks.

Robert

[Lloyd Smale]

When i wired my pole barn (its where i do my loading and casting) i wired the whole building wtih #10 wire. It cost more when i did it but ive never regreted it.

[pa_guns]

Sounds to me like all you need to do is make sure the outlet is a 20amp rated, and the breaker on the circuit is a 20amp, and you are good to go.

Hi

The problem there is that you need to know what else is on that same circuit. If you have it lightly loaded otherwise, then yes you are good to go. If the same circuit feeds three bedrooms and the basement, you have some more checking to do.

The temperature controllers on the pots normally are of the on/off variety. They cycle between full on and off to maintain the temperature in the pot. Even at idle they will each pull full current for several seconds at a time. It doesn't take long for things to muck up....

Bob

[exblaster]

This is a very interesting discussion and a subject that most of us don't think about. Perhaps it should be a sticky post some where. I do have a question for you knowledgeable folks. What effect will line loss have on the wiring run? Mabey I should say voltage drop over the run of the circuit .

Exblaster