.30-30 Win. Barrel Length

[tonyjones]

With respect to velocity, what is the maximum effective barrel length for the .30-30 Win. cartridge. In other words, at what point does increasing barrel length no longer increase velocity?

Thanks and regards,

Tony

[nekshot]

just my opinion but I have a 303 savage with a 26 inch tube and comparing that to 20 inch 30-30's I would say 22 inch for a 30-30 is max for velocity gain. The long 26 inch tube doesn't really gain anything over the 20 inch from my expierences.

[tonyjones]

Is nekshot the only one here with an opinion as regards my question?

Tony

[mainiac]

I know the difference between a 20" and a 24" thutty-thutty barrell is worth 150f.p.s.,,maybe more...

Aint an answer to your question,but it appears the 30 is still making extra speed@24"

[Outpost75]

In a single-shot rifle with a compact action, you can use a barrel as long as 30 inches without the gun being unwieldy. There are advantages in longer sight radius, lowered muzzle pressure and milder report, as well as velocity improvement. When rebarrelling always use the longest barrel you can get. You can always cut it shorter later.

[RPRNY]

This depends on 1) bullet weight and type 2) powder 3) receiver.

If sticking to SAAMI max 42,000 PSI and standard for cal weights 150 - 170 grs, Leverevolution in the 35 - 40 grs range is your best bet for high velocity. The Mx Avg Pressure Is lower than other factory loads and velocity higher. Evidence suggests a slower burn and slower MAP means that a 22" -24" barrel might deliver more fps than a 20" barrel. It apparently doesn't do as well with lower weight bullets.

Frank Marshall' s. "Heavy 30-30" loads were as I recall developed for a Savage 340 bolt gun. He went as big as the 210 gr Lyman 311284 and used slow powders in the 24" barrel. Pressures almost certainly exceeded SAAMI MAP.

For standard published loads with the likes of 3031 and 4198, 22" is probably all the barrel you need. For lower velocity cast loads with Unique, 4198, 4227, 20" is plenty.

[tonyjones]

Thanks guys. You've given me several things to think about.

Regards,

Tony

[Larry Gibson]

Depending on the action, the date of manufacture, correct powder choice and keeping the psi within SAAMI specs the 24 - 26" barrels can provide a 200+ fps increase over the 20" barrel. Velocity does increase between 24 & 26" barrels and I don't know of any longer barreled 30-30s so I can't say where barrel length will begin decreasing velocity when appropriate powders are used. However, my experience with other longer barrels tells me it will probably be around or after 30".

I prefer the longer 24" barrel because the 200+ fps increase is important where I hunt as 200+ yard shots are entirely possible. Also with the longer sight radius I can still focus on the farther away front sight through a standard aperture rear sight. I've had the shorter M94 carbine (still have my 1st m94 I got for my 14th BD) and used many others shorter barreled rifles for many years. In reality I find them no handier when hunting than a longer barreled 24" barreled rifle. I hunted many years in the rain forests of the PNW and it doesn't get any thicker than that. However, the longer sight radius is definitely an improvement to accuracy with iron sights. Thus I prefer longer barreled M94s for many reasons; improved ballistics and better sighting with iron mostly. My M94 Carbine has a scout scope on it now.

Larry Gibson

[tonyjones]

My several load manuals suggest that a 24" barrel will give a 150 to 200 fps velocity increase over a
20" barrel with jacketed bullets. I do not recall ever seeing .30-30 load data for longer barrels though I recall some articles with anecdotal information.

I'm planning for a new rifle to be an iron sight, dedicated cast bullet shooter. I started out thinking about a Dakota Model 10 but I'm now considering the Dakota Sharps and CPA as well. With a new semi-custom rifle I'll have some latitude in choice of barrel length, etc. Dakota regularly chambers the Model 10 in cartridges in the SAAMI 60K psi MAP class. I'm not sure about the design limits of the Dakota Sharps or the CPA. I also do not know the relative strength of .30 WCF brass. In any event, I'll probably stay fairly close to SAAMI specs with a M 10 and below that with the others.

I strongly agree about the benefits of a long sight radius (with irons) and reduced muzzle pressure, etc. However, I will be carrying this rifle in heavy South Texas brush where a carbine length rifle is more handy.

I intend to develop two loads but I'll likely try lots of combinations getting there. I'll be looking for a "lightweight" moderate velocity plinker and a hunting load in the range of 150 to 180 grains. I have a rather large selection of suitable powders on hand but no LeverRevolution.

If I were to choose a barrel length right now I'd go with 23" or 25" in standard taper in the Model 10 or 26" or 28" in one of the other actions. The M 10 is such a neat, trim rifle (23" is their standard barrel length) that I'm afraid too long of a barrel would "mess" things up. The Dakota Sharps and CPA are regularly fitted with longer barrels and a 28" or so tube would not seem out of place, to me at least.

What say you?

Best regards,

Tony

[westcoastmountainman]

hi all, new member, but i must say this and I hope it does not wrinkle some noses. Winchester early 94's were not all carbine sized. My grandfather has a early 94 with the 30'' octagon barrel, all original. It has a blade front sight and a open buck horn rear sight. it has a 10 shot tubular magazine. it was manufactured in the last part of 1899-early 1900's. it still shoot straight, it does not key hole either. I am about to purchase a cost to coat 843(savage 340) in 30-30. What i want know is there any pet loads with hornady's 140-160 gr. ftx bullet? I am going to make some loads that are safe for my grandfathers gun. don't worry about pressures. that old gun is still rock solid. Hornady is reporting 2400+/- fps from a 24'' pipe, what would it be with the 30 inch barrel. He is not using the gun much these days but still takes her out once in a while when the fancy strikes. Cant blame him much. its a fun gun to shoot. I know that the reloading data is still skimpy with the ftx/monoflex bullets. attached is a picture of my 30-30

[DiamondD]

I don't have any first hand knowledge for you but I did read an article somewhere where a guy was comparing velocities between 26" .30-30 and a 20" .30-30 AI rifles. In all the loads he listed he met or exceeded the velocity of the AI loads in the 26" .30-30 barrel. I do plan to do some testing this summer if I can get around to it. I have M94s with 20 and 26" barrels and a Contender Carbine with a 23".

[DiamondD]

Just realized how old this thread was. Nice bolt action BTW! I have wanted to find a nice bolt in a .30-30. I have heard that magazine length pretty well restricts you to loading flat point bullets unless you single load. Still be fun to play with.

[lobogunleather]

My .30-30's have included several Model 94 carbines with 20" barrel, a 1930's vintage Model 55 Deluxe takedown with 24" barrel, and a 1904 vintage Model 94 rifle with 26" octagon barrel. Several years ago I had the opportunity to chronograph all of these variations using the same ammunition (cast 170-grain gas check bullet, 30 grains H335). Velocities from the 20" carbines were in the 2100-2200FPS range, the 24" Model 55 yielded 2200 pretty consistently, and the 26" provided 2300 but with wider variations than the others.

In my opinion there was not enough difference to make me prefer one over the other. I suspect that other differences from one rifle to another would be likely to make as much, or more, difference than the barrel lengths. My personal preferences lean toward the longer sight radius and balance provided by the longer barrels.

I know they will all bring home the venison.

[runfiverun]

velocity isn't the end game.
the FTX's need shorter cases and trimming a bunch of thin walled 30-30 cases does not sound like fun to me.
I'd just go with a good normal load.
the rifles sights will correspond better and the 'old man' will appreciate not having to pick his glasses and teeth up off the bench after every shot.

your 340 will shoot pointy bullets just fine but if I want speed out of my 340 or my 325 I just use a 130gr bullet from sierra.
I have pushed cast up over 2400 fps in both of them and find I start losing accuracy getting there.
backing things down into the real world 22-2300 area increases my fun quotient and accuracy.
never seen a deer just wander off after being hit with a 100 fps drop in velocity either.

the old 'the 7.62 X39 is a great rifle out to 300 meters but junk at 301 meters' joke applies to the 30-30.
it'll work or it won't, 3' feet or 100 fps ain't gonna matter.

[Motor]

velocity isn't the end game.
the FTX's need shorter cases and trimming a bunch of thin walled 30-30 cases does not sound like fun to me.
I'd just go with a good normal load.
the rifles sights will correspond better and the 'old man' will appreciate not having to pick his glasses and teeth up off the bench after every shot.

your 340 will shoot pointy bullets just fine but if I want speed out of my 340 or my 325 I just use a 130gr bullet from sierra.
I have pushed cast up over 2400 fps in both of them and find I start losing accuracy getting there.
backing things down into the real world 22-2300 area increases my fun quotient and accuracy.
never seen a deer just wander off after being hit with a 100 fps drop in velocity either.

the old 'the 7.62 X39 is a great rifle out to 300 meters but junk at 301 meters' joke applies to the 30-30.
it'll work or it won't, 3' feet or 100 fps ain't gonna matter.

Sorry but you are wrong. Standard trim length is used for the 160gr FTX in 30-30 Win.

As far as the original question goes I suggest that you look a what barrel length the latest Marlin 30-30 "rifle" is. They were designed to take full advantage of the FTX and Leverevolution powder.

From my own experience with the 160gr FTX and Leverevolution powder I was able to get 2375 f/s from a Winchester model 94 without exceeding book max load or have any pressure related signs. I'd imagine a 24 or 26 inch barrel would be a little better.

Motor

BTW: The velocity gain is from burn rate. There is no more felt recoil or muzzle blast then there is from any factory 170gr load. The "old man's" teeth and glasses will not be effected.

That being said. I personally would not push the old girl to today's highest standards. It just doesn't seem right. I have a vintage Marlin 1893. All it sees is cast loads.

[claude]

As far as the original question goes I suggest that you look a what barrel length the latest Marlin 30-30 "rifle" is. They were designed to take full advantage of the FTX and Leverevolution powder.

Marlin has been making 30-30 rifles with 20" barrels since way before the FTX came out. they are still making 20" barrels in 30-30 as per the link below. The "quotes" around rifles is meaningless, unless you wish to pick at a gnat and swallow a camel.

Any time velocity is increased with a given bullet weight the recoil is necessarily increased as well, it is a physical law.

That being said, I don't shoot that nasty old Hornady **** either........



http://www.marlinfirearms.com/Firear...rfire/336C.asp

[Motor]

The velocity increase is due to the pressure curve. A high but not exceeding SAMMI spec pressure is maintained longer than with other powders.

So the pressure is no more than any other standard load.

The Marlin 30-30 rifles that were introduced around the same time as the FTX ammo had longer than 20" barrels. Weather or not it made a significant difference in velocity I don't really know. Logic says it should make some.

Motor

[Ballistics in Scotland]

It depends so much on the choice of powder that anything that can be said about velocity is something of a generalization. In general the losses - in velocity - from a 20in. barrel aren't very significant for the kind of shooting in which most .30-30s get used. But there are other factors. It is used in rifles which aren't made unwieldy or slow by a 25in. barrel, and forward weight on that scale can be very helpful in stopping the muzzle from wobbling in an uncomfortable position. This is a rifle you often have to use off balance and standing on a boulder.

Larry Gibson has identified a very important factor. The .30-30 is more often used with iron sights than most rifles. The front sight is the thing it is most important to focus sharply on - more important than an open rear sight or the target even, and with age we lose the ability to shift focus quickly from target to sight. In that situation another six inches is a big help.

[Outpost75]

I have a single-shot rifle chambered for the .30-40 Krag cartridge which has a 28" barrel and with standard pressure loads with 4350 powder closely approximates the velocities of factory loads in my shorter 22-inch .30-'06s and the deer can't tell the difference. The break-open Krag single shot is no longer and is two pounds lighter than my Winchester Model 70 boltgun.

[RPRNY]

I have a single-shot rifle chambered for the .30-40 Krag cartridge which has a 28" barrel and with standard pressure loads with 4350 powder closely approximates the velocities of factory loads in my shorter 22-inch .30-'06s and the deer can't tell the difference. The break-open Krag single shot is no longer and is two pounds lighter than my Winchester Model 70 boltgun.

Handi Rifle?

That will be a helluva rifle! Pic to drool over would be lovely.

I have a. 24" Ruger #3 in 30-40. 175 grs at 2650 fps all day long. It likes longer bullets, so Berger VLD s and Barnes work very well. 215 grs cast 311284 at 1700 fps in my 1896 Krag sporter makes for a brutally effective hog rifle too.

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