There was so much go info on this thread , wow.. But ever wonder how many things that B, Larry ,Gear and some others agree on? Many ,many things on many different topics.. But still there is no way everyone could have the same exact trial and error outcome on the fore mentioned topic, too many variable at play, No One should go away from this thread sour, just difference of opinions and as long as there are different people there will always be different opinions , self trial will be the deciding sum of these problems for the individual and said person's rifle /boolit/load etc.. You guys are too good, too much experience, and too much value to us younger guys here, to fall out over opinions of what has worked for yourselves. I'm nobody here, but I suffer when you guys clam up and won't share info, because of differences in opinion . Take it with a grain of salt and move on , YOU know what has and has not worked for YOU, but please don't quit sharing that with US ..