First outing with the #301618 NOE boolits

[Nobade]

I got to meet up with LynC2 today to give the new NRA boolits their first test through my 30-06. I patched them two ways, one with the patch over the break in the ogive and the other stopping the patch at the first groove. Reading the NRA article, they varied the patch location to set the seating depth to be in tune with the rifle's throat. That didn't seem right to me since the .301" core prevents the bolt from closing if it is too far out, and having exposed lead touch the barrel is a no-no. But I tried it.

Fired the ones with the patch over the ogive first. They seat pretty deep, the base of the boolit is in the shoulder area of the case. But they shot good and were holding about 1 1/2 MOA. Next up were the ones with the patch at the first groove. At first, I thought they were working well. Still holding about the same accuracy at 200M. But then a flier showed up... We decided to try them at 500M and it was laughable. Hits 50 feet to either side of the target! What the heck? Back to 200M and we couldn't hit the plate any more. Guess what? you still don't want lead touching the bore! I fired the last of the long patched loads, and they cleaned the bore up a bit and the last two nearly touched. Then back to the short patched rounds and they're going all over the place. Lesson learned.

Got home and gave the bore a good scrubbing. There wasn't THAT much lead in there, but it was enough. I patched up another 50 tonight with the long patch over the ogive, I'll load them up for the next range trip and I am betting they work fine all the way through. We shall see....

BTW, loads were compressed charges of WW780 over Fed 215 primers. Also tried duplexed loads of 4227 + WC857 which also worked well but hit a bit lower at 200M so must not be quite as speedy. Still plenty stout though, both these loads are pretty close to the limit of power a 30-06 can generate.

OK Lyn, your turn to see what your version of this boolit will do!

-Nobade

[pdawg_shooter]

I found out long ago that for best results the "nose riding" part of a mold need to be lapped out to the same diameter as you size the core to and patched just past the start of the ogive or all kinds of bad things can happen. After I lapped the nose section of my 311289 out to .302 it became one of my most accurate bullets. Lovern design are the easiest to make shoot. Size them to .001/.0015 over bore diameter and patch t the first grease groove.

[barrabruce]

Well my loverin wouldn't shoot in mine till I made the nose section to bore +1.

I patch to the first groove and then wipe the nose with alox or 50/50.
Then again I don't get as fast as you lot.

I have the same effect as noabe if I don't lube the lead nose.

Like to hear some more reports on the NRA pp moulds shooting.



Barra

[Nobade]

Well my loverin wouldn't shoot in mine till I made the nose section to bore +1.

I patch to the first groove and then wipe the nose with alox or 50/50.
Then again I don't get as fast as you lot.

I have the same effect as noabe if I don't lube the lead nose.

Like to hear some more reports on the NRA pp moulds shooting.



Barra

This is why I started this thread - hoping that now people have those moulds they will start replying and share information on how they are working in various applications.

I am going to try dipping the nose in alox to see what happens, if a little lube will solve the problem that will be good to know. The NRA used some sort of teflon spray in their experiments and didn't seem to have any leading problems, but I still haven't figured out how they got a .301" nose to enter a .300" hole very far and still close the bolt. They say they were using boolits at about 20 BHN, which is about where mine should be, and if there was much nose out there at all I can't close the bolt on my rifle. The nose would stop it before the patch got to the end of the throat. So, so far everything I have been doing with PP boolits seems to hold true for this one too.

-Nobade

[CJR]

Nobade,

Interesting test and good info. I don't have a problem with 0.301"D. PPCB entering my 30 cal. bores. Some questions:
1. Were the CB weight sorted?
2. Were the PPCB straight-line seated?
3. Was bullet runout checked?
4. Any case prep done?

Though I shoot short and long patched CB at the range, without problems, I only carry long patched (i.e. PP over start of ogive) PPCB when hunting. Reason? I don't want to de-bullet any PPCB while hunting and then have to remove the bore-stuck PPCB in the field.

Best regards,

CJR

[Nrut]

Interesting report Nobabe,
Are you saying, with the short patched bullet (patched just to the top groove) you are not able to engrave the patch with the lands because the .301 exposed nose won't allow it?

Are you get any paper rings on your case mouth?

Could you go over your case prep and loading procedure please?
Thanks

My mold should be at the post office the middle of this coming week but won't be able to pick it up for another ten days due to break-up and muddy drive..

[Nobade]

I could get the patch to engrave, but it took a extremely full case of powder to keep the boolit from being pushed back into the case, and a good effort to close the bolt.

No paper rings at all.

Case prep involves chamfering and deburring the case mouths. Nothing else really, using HXP brass from the CMP.

Loading is use the Lee collet die to size the cases, reprime, throw powder, and seat the boolit. The pointed nose on this boolit fits the seater stem in my RCBS die so I didn't have to make a new one. To establish seating depth and therefore powder charge I seat a boolit in an empty case and make it slightly deeper until I can close the bolt. Then make up a loaded round to the same length and try that (with firing pin removed) If it engraves the patch properly I'll go with that, making sure I have enough powder in the case to ensure a compressed load.

Let us know how yours works once you get to it!

-Nobade

[Nobade]

Nobade,

Interesting test and good info. I don't have a problem with 0.301"D. PPCB entering my 30 cal. bores. Some questions:
1. Were the CB weight sorted?
2. Were the PPCB straight-line seated?
3. Was bullet runout checked?
4. Any case prep done?

Though I shoot short and long patched CB at the range, without problems, I only carry long patched (i.e. PP over start of ogive) PPCB when hunting. Reason? I don't want to de-bullet any PPCB while hunting and then have to remove the bore-stuck PPCB in the field.

Best regards,

CJR

1. No.
2. Seated with normal RCBS die
3. No.
4. Mouths deburred to allow boolits to seat and not get damaged. Primer pockets swaged on military brass.

That's about it.

-Nobade

[barrabruce]

i had some good success with a long nose rider patched only to the start of the grooves with a 309 patch.
Have you checked how far a bullet will seat without a patch???

Maark a cleaning rod on a closed bolt....then with a core seated in the rifling.
This will giv you a max cartridge over all length.

Then patch the thickness to match to we're it can engrave the rifling.
probably 309 ---310.

Should give you a shorter seated bullet.

Now someone tell me to pull me head in.

Barra.

[Harter66]

I'm looking forward to more data. Mine has beat me home by 2 weeks.

NoBade, it sounds like it's going to work out in at least my Savages seated well up in the neck of the 06 and just to the shoulder of the 308,they're quite long throated .

How about 2 groove bbls? There's an 03A3 that has been ......uncooperative w/most loads much above gallery levels. So heres to hi hopes.

[Any Cal.]

Last night I put a .377 boolit in a .375 throat w/ just a bit of effort on the bolt... The throat is a fat .375, and the boolit was slightly out of round, it scuffed one side as it entered the throat. Could be something similar going on at other times.

[Nobade]

Last night I put a .377 boolit in a .375 throat w/ just a bit of effort on the bolt... The throat is a fat .375, and the boolit was slightly out of round, it scuffed one side as it entered the throat. Could be something similar going on at other times.

I am not talking about the throat. I am talking about getting a hard .301" boolit to enter a .300" hole. The patch is .3095" and fits the .310" throat perfectly. That is not the problem.

What the NRA wanted you to do is put the patch wherever on the boolit it needed to be so it seated to the base of the neck while also engraving into the rifling, while letting the .301" nose of the boolit be wherever it needed to be to achieve this.

What I am saying is when I tried this, the .301" boolit wouldn't go into the .300" bore and when it was forced to do so, it leaded the bore when fired.

So I went back to patching over the ogive, seating the boolits so the patch firmly engaged the rifling when the bolt was closed, didn't allow any lead to touch the barrel, and didn't worry about where the base was inside the case. They work far better that way, give good accuracy, and don't lead the bore.

-Nobade

[CJR]

Nobade,

It would be interesting to size your CB down until it; entered your bore with very slight resistance, had PPCB base seated at end of neck, and PP located to be in contact with chamber forcing cone and see how it's accuracy compares to how you're loading it now.

Best regards,

CJR

[Treetop]

I'm subscribed to this informative thread by Nobade. Tt.

[pdawg_shooter]

Quote from Nobade: So I went back to patching over the ogive, seating the boolits so the patch firmly engaged the rifling when the bolt was closed, didn't allow any lead to touch the barrel, and didn't worry about where the base was inside the case. They work far better that way, give good accuracy, and don't lead the bore.

+1 on this method. I always patch just over the start of the gave, and not worry about where the base of the bullet ends up. I also seat so the rifling engraves the patch a bit. The only exception is a .458 Win that I extended the throat on when I need to feed from the magazine. This rifle was built to test the limits of paper patching. It is shot mostly as a single shot.

[Harter66]

Trouble butting in.....
No issues so far w/the NOE 301618 172gr. I wanted to share a graphic of the pre-load dummies for an RA 11-43 1903A3 2 groove .
These were uniformed in a Buckshot 301 dia push through as they were from the 1st cast w/this mould and getting a feel for its ...... flow . I don't feel that we're communicating clearly yet.(The mould and I)
The cases are 2x RP chamfered and flared to allow free chamber and slip fit of the patched boolit.
The boolits are dry wrapped w/2x greenbar and trimmed to fit (?) an slipped through a 316 Buckshot push through to lube the patch and shape them . I can't call it ironed on as its not much more than heavy contact.

Right to left patched over the ogive,patched to 2nd groove which crushed the patch ,and the 3rd groove which actually is touching the lands on the ogive and gave about .1'' of seating and touches the lead. Last is a 308 used to show the open bare boolit for comparison and to show better the rifle to rifle variation.

Attachment 104871

[Harter66]

Attachment 104875
I added on the left a chamber seated example from a 65' Savage 110 also over the ogive .

I guess there is a question in there.

Long for bbl to boolit contact or short to just reach the bbl ?

[Hardcast416taylor]

I just got my NOE #301618 a week or so back and have been looking for a chance to use it. Today was rainy and canceled my work cutting wood, "A-HAH, I said lead melting"! I scrubbed the mold with dawn soap let it air dry them assembled it to heat temper it on my hot plate. I got another 7mm RCBS 168 gr. mold out also to make a run of them. I had the pot simmering at 750 degrees when my neighbor stopped by. About 30 minutes later I started casting. I about drained the pot of alloy casting when I discovered that I had made nearly 20 lbs of RCBS 7mm 168 gr. boolets and there sat my NOE mold still poking its nose out from under an old towel. Maybe I can get some done tomorrow, if it rains again.Robert

[Harter66]

Wow thats like dejavue thats exactly what I'm sitting in a pile of all fresh cast ,7mm 168 SP and the NOE ..... Grape mimes think about stuff.....

[Harter66]

I shot 4 loads at NCBS this weekend in a 2 groove 11-43 RA 1903A3 at 300x308.
The 301618 172gr was sized 301 and wrapped 2x w/green bar seated as above trimed in the 3rd groove from the nose. This allowed seating in the 03'at the neck/shoulder junction and just enough Darrs lube to stick the paper to itself.
The loads were 51,51.5 of IMR4350 and 54,54.5 of H4831.
The 4350 loads spread about 18'' for 5 shots w/51.5 making oval holes at 50yd.
The 4831 loads shot 3 shot groups of about 4 and 6'' respectivly, suggesting that 49-50gr might be the ticket.
There doesn't seem to be any lead fouling in the bbl however there does seem to be a lead ring stuck to the crown ,it is unknown whether that is new or was simply lifted from prior GG attemps w/this rifle. I will try other rifles soon.