120gr RN - .30 Carbine Group Buy

[garandsrus]

I finally found my .30 Carbine dies so I got a chance to load some boolits from the group buy. They were all ACWW, sized. 310, lubed with Lars BAC lube, WSR primer, and loaded with H110 powder. The charge weight and average velocity was:
12.0 - 1613 (Only chronographed two shots. Need to do more)
12.5 - 1706
13.0 - 1794
13.5 - 1841
LC Ball - 1847 (original LC issue carbine ammo)

The LC Ball is supposed to be 1975 fps or so. The temperature when I was shooting was about 34 degrees, so the cold might have reduced the velocity a bit. The 13.5 gr load pretty well matches the velocity of the LC Ball ammo. The target is a SR-1 reduced to 100 yds but the groups were shot at 50 yds off a bench with sand bags.

I had the best accuracy with 12.0 and 12.5 gr H110. I had the boolits seated out a little too long and one would occasionally get stuck down deep in the magazine. I need to seat them more deeply which should increase both the pressure and velocity.

The group on the left is about 20 shots with 12.5gr H110 and the cast boolit, the right is 10 shots with ball ammo. The groups are pretty close in size. The one shot low left that is out of the group was the first shot from the magazine. I don't know if I have a "first shot problem" or if I just pulled it. All the boolits were fed from the magazine. Sometime during the shooting, I did adjust the sights so the only thing that is relevant is the group size, not it's location.



Has anyone else tried this boolit?

John

[dubber123]

Fatelvis had one that shot about as good as ball for him, but I guess he had functioning problems. He made me a good deal on it, and I have some loaded in 30-30 I will try soon.

[Blammer]

nice shooting, what's that bullet look like?

[jjamna]

Hope they all shoot good. I have one ordered and can't wait to get it.

[garandsrus]

Blammer,

Here's the picture I posted in the group buy thread...



John

[Patrick L]

Here are a few target pictures I snapped. All were shot at 50 yds from the bench. The target is a B8 pistol target, whose black is virtually the same size as the SR1 Garandsrus showed in his pics (I actually use these as repair centers for the SR1.)

Anyhow the load for both cast loads is 11 gr 2400 and a CCI small rifle primer. There is a picture of the 120RN that garansrus honchoed, and the 120FP that Willbird ran about a year ago. Both bullets in these groups were shot unsized (as cast) and lubed with LLA. I have also shot them sized .311 in a Lee push thru sizer/LLA, and sized .311 on a conventional lubesizer lubed with LBT Blue and can really see no difference in group sizes. I think the carbine as a fun gun, so less work = more fun.

I also threw in a picture of a 5 shot group of Winchester USA ball, just to compare. The ball group was shot before I filed the front sight to zero, so ignore the lower poi. Oh, and I hope its obvious that the three holes along the left side of each target are for the three ring binder, not fliers!






Oh, and the gun (Inland is on the bottom. The Saginaw is no longer with me.)


I'm pretty happy with those results. I'll actually favor the FP bullet only because, with one big lube groove, it casts just a little easier. However, not all guns will feed it. The Saginaw pictured absolutely would not, but the Inland gobbles it up. I'll try to shoot some 100 yd targets to post once Spring rolls around. On a good day I'll just about hold the black most of the time. I don't wig out over fliers with the carbine because with a 5 pound rifle, a 6 pound trigger pull, that short sight radius, and my eyes, its just sooo easy to pull shots, even at 50 yds.

[DaveInFloweryBranchGA]

Gentlemen,

I have cast a nice batch of bullets with my new mold. (Thanks Garansrus) Mine cast out about .312-313" or so. I have a Lee .311" push through die coming in this week, but was considering shooting as cast.

I built my rifle from a kit and my barrel is like new old stock dated 3-53 and made by Springfield Armory (The Gov't Arsenal, not Genesco, ILL.) and has had fewer than 50 rounds fired through it. I slugged it out at .308" to.308.5" groove diameter with a land diameter of .299". Planned powder is W296, H110 or 4227, as I have those on the shelf.

Do you think it's I'll be risking pressure issues to fire these as cast? I'm pretty new at shooting cast in anything but pistol.

Thanks,

Dave

[cast367]

I read in my lyman handbook : the 311410 is the best choice for .30 m1
I have good expirence with reduced loads

cast 367

[AllanD]

I have no experience and some hesitancy about loading cast boolets
in a GAS operated semi-automatic.

However that being said if you have a gas piston wrench to remove the gas
piston to clean behind it then the M1 Carbine is probably one of tjhe better
gas operated semi-s for cast boolets.

AD

[mj2evans]

Any chance there is a 6 cavity mold still out there? I am disgusted with the price/quality of 30 carbine ammo and have decided to cast for my M1.

[Newtire]

I have no experience and some hesitancy about loading cast boolets
in a GAS operated semi-automatic.

However that being said if you have a gas piston wrench to remove the gas
piston to clean behind it then the M1 Carbine is probably one of tjhe better
gas operated semi-s for cast boolets.

AD

Hi Allan,

I bought the Lee 120 gr. and have alot of those loaded but found that the 311359 was a tad more accurate. I shot about 750 thru it before I cleaned it and the gas piston had a coating of carbon on it and a little carbon buildup inside the piston housing. I was using a punch to tap the nut loose until I broke the nut so got a wrench and a new nut. I check the nut once in awhile but it's really not much trouble and really likes the cast boolits.

[cast367]

Last Saterday I trayed the Lee 120 grs GC with AA no.9 and AA 5744. it give an fine result
in my M1 carb. at the 50 meter ranch. loaded with the Lee PRO 1000 , I use .71 disk for no 9
and .95 disk for 5744..
Cast 367

[m1buck]

My buddy cast some for me today. He said they are coming out of the mold at .315. He has a .309 sizer but this is too much to take off and is causing problems. What is everone else getting staight out of the molds and will like a .312 sizer do the job or will this make the bullets too big and cause feeeding problems,reloading problems, leading problems and ect?

[Patrick L]

Mine drop out at about .312. The .311 sizer will just barely burnish the edges of the bands. FWIW, I shot a bunch uf these unsized and lubed with LLA and they shot great, even better than when lubed and sized .311 in the conventional way.

[Patrick L]

A few threads up I posted pictures of some 50 yd groups I had shot last fall with this boolit out of my CMP Inland carbine. I said I 'd get around to trying some 100 yd groups this spring. Well, yesterday I did. The load was the same, 11 gr of 2400. I tried three different sizings of this boolit. First I tried them sized .311 in a conventional lubsizer, lubed with LBT Blue Soft. Next was with LLA sized .311 in a push thru Lee sizer. Finally I shot some unsized lubed with LLA.

For 100 yds I switched to a standard 100 yd smallbore target, with a black measuring 8 inches across. I find a need this size black to get any sort of consistent referencing of the front sight on the target at that range. And on that subject, I think shooting groups at this range with such a little gun is a real challenge. The sights are so close together, the trigger pull is more than the gun weight, and my eyes just plain suck. So I don't get too rattled if there's a flyer or two. Its me, not the gun or load.

Anyhow, I was pretty pleased. While a single target is by no means conclusive, it seems that unsized boolits shot as well if not better than the conventionally sized ones, just as they did at 50 yds. Thats good, because I think of this as a fun gun, so if I can do less work on the bullets, that means more time for fun.

Here are 10 shots conventional lubesized



Here's 10 lubed with LLA and sized in a Lee push thru



And here's 10 unsized, lubed with LLA



I didn't measure the groups, but I set a quarter on the targets for the picture so you get an idea. Honestly, I don't know how much better you can expect a GI carbine to shoot at that range. Plainbase lead bullets in this cartridge = cheap shooting, and not sizing means less work = more trigger time. You gotta love that.

[hbramrunner]

I've got an an old Cramer 5 cavity mold that drops a 311 123gr pointed boolit. I thought of trying them in my carbine,but I was concerned about the gas system. From reading this thread I'm going to give it a try. I also wanted to load some 7.62x39 as well. Have any of you tried that with the Lee Boolit? I wonder if the gas system on the SKS will compare. Don't have an AK but it might work as well.
hbramrunner

[Larry Gibson]

Nice looking m1 Carbines. I've chronographed quite a bit of factory and U.S. GI ammo in several carbines. Most of the factory runs right at 1900 fps and the GI runs 1900-1925 fps. This is mostly on 65 -80 degree days. Test barrels were 20" in the old days instead of 18" like the M1 carbine has for some obscure reason.

Regards Lyman's claim on the 311410; I've had two 311410 moulds over the years; a HP mould and a double cavity. I shot them every way but loose. I never got any better than 4-6 moa with them at 100 yards and then it was with 12.5 gr of H4227 which was down in the 1500 fps range. I figured if I was going to go to the trouble to cast bullets they should at least shoot better than most GI ball whose accuracy isn't saying much. With a carbine that has good bedding and a decent barrel I have alwyas cut group size in two with a GC bullet of 100 - 120 gr.

This was 2-3 MOA at 1850-1950 fps. The GB 120 gr should also do well, perhaps better than the 311410, with 4227 in the 1500-1700 fps range. Its longer bearing surface and FB should give it an edge over the 311410.

I'd take a steel 7.62x54R case, sharpen the case mouth and lay some milk carton over an end piece of wood and punch out some card wads with a light tap of a plastic mallet on the base. I'd drill out the base of the case so the wads would come out. I'd then load these under the 120 gr PB bullet on top of a slightly compressed load of 4227, probably 12.5-14 grs.

Larry Gibson

[mj2evans]

How are you guys using LLA? Before and after sizing? I shot 50 rounds of the 120gr sized .311 with 11.0gr 2400 but only lubed prior to sizing. I got leading that too some JB bore paste to get out. I admit the barrel was likely not perfectly clean prior to shooting but I shot the same alloy (basically WW with GC, lube before and after sizing) in 30-06 and no leading at all. I was hoping to avoid a dip lube after sizing since this is really just a plinker but I will lube twice if it will cure the leading. I also going to try 10.5gr 2400 and see if the carbine will cycle.

[Patrick L]

Yes, on the sized bullets I put a light coat af LLA, let it dry for a few days, sized them, and then another light coat of LLA.

Obviously the unsized ones just get one shot of LLA.