Forster is getting calls concerning their Tap-a-cap cap maker

[Texantothecore]

Their phone number is:

815-493-6360

Everyone give them a call asking them to bring this product back on the market.

[aspangler]

Been trying to find one. May give them a call but I have one that I am making from drawing in the 'net. Almost done and so far looks good.

[waksupi]

Pat Marlin is working on one.

[Hardcast416taylor]

I GAVE my Tap-A-Cap away because I grew weary of the homemade caps going off while inserting the paper cap in the metal pop can holder. The fellow I gave it to only had it about 6 months and he put it on FleaBay for the same reasons I gave it to himRobert

[Texantothecore]

I did some research on pyro sites and found out that 36 screened charcoal is used to make gold sparks which would probably increase the efficiency of the charge. They look to be above 801 f but not hot enough to erode the nipple bore.

With the r&d that is being done on this board it could a very different situation this time around.

[Texantothecore]

Waksupi,
The last I heard from Pat he decided to not continue with the project. I'm sure that could change but we will have to see. I sent him some ideas which I hope were useful.

[mooman76]

I GAVE my Tap-A-Cap away because I grew weary of the homemade caps going off while inserting the paper cap in the metal pop can holder. The fellow I gave it to only had it about 6 months and he put it on FleaBay for the same reasons I gave it to himRobert

I am not understanding this. I am not doubting you but I have done close to 1k caps and have never had any go off while inserting the caps or putting the cap on the nipple. I had some go off while punching them out but that's because the punch cut through the cap where the powder was.

[waksupi]

I had plenty caps go off while priming them.

[Battis]

I have one but it's useless and really frustrating. The problem is the red rolled paper caps that you use for ignition -sometimes they work, most times they don't.

[Texantothecore]

I am not understanding this. I am not doubting you but I have done close to 1k caps and have never had any go off while inserting the caps or putting the cap on the nipple. I had some go off while punching them out but that's because the punch cut through the cap where the powder was.

In Pat's thread on his capmaker he mentioned that he cut his roll caps square and then primed the cups and he had a great deal of success with those caps ignitionwise (100% ignition) and they seemed to prime more easily and they stayed in place.

After squaring the caps off he wets his finger, picks up the charge and drops it into the cap case. I assume that he uses a small tool to seat the charge.

Trying to jam too much cap into the capcase may be the real issue. Just a thought.

[Texantothecore]

The caps that seem work well are "Legends of the Wild West" available through Walmart and they are German caps.

I saw a reference a few weeks ago concerning a cap brand which had a warning to keep the capgun away from your face because the caps throw an unusual amount of sparks. I haven't found them yet but am still looking.

[n.h.schmidt]

Hi Guys
aspangler Contact me about the cap maker you are making.I have some experience with this and could help.
Cap dots going off while inserting them was a problem for me long ago.I don't seem to have that problem anymore.
Maybe it's the brand of caps I can currently get(the german one's). I constructed two easy to build cap cup holders for loading up the cups. They make the loading much more convenient and safe. I will get some pictures on here if anybody wants to see them. Cutting the dots out with a sissors would be very tedious. What is desirable is a paper punch of or close to 5/32". That will make the dots just barely bigger than than the cups. A lot less paper to get in the way too. For me the path to success is in a small amt. of FFFG BP in the cup first and one dot on top of that. A light spray of hairspray over the loaded cup holds it in and provides some waterproofing. I use Rave hairspray.
Going for a lot of blast with many dots in the cup usually dosn't work very well. You get more noise but almost no blast getting through the nipple.I proved this with my bench cap tester. The BP charged cap shoots a spray of orange sparks through the nipple and this is working well for me. The single dot on top of the BP dosn't sound like it has any power at all,pretty wimpy in fact. It is the way to go for using toy pistol caps. Some of the braver soles are making there own priming to do this. Maybe they can chime in too.
n.n.schmidt

[Texantothecore]

Hi Guys
aspangler Contact me about the cap maker you are making.I have some experience with this and could help.
Cap dots going off while inserting them was a problem for me long ago.I don't seem to have that problem anymore.
Maybe it's the brand of caps I can currently get(the german one's). I constructed two easy to build cap cup holders for loading up the cups. They make the loading much more convenient and safe. I will get some pictures on here if anybody wants to see them. Cutting the dots out with a sissors would be very tedious. What is desirable is a paper punch of or close to 5/32". That will make the dots just barely bigger than than the cups. A lot less paper to get in the way too. For me the path to success is in a small amt. of FFFG BP in the cup first and one dot on top of that. A light spray of hairspray over the loaded cup holds it in and provides some waterproofing. I use Rave hairspray.
Going for a lot of blast with many dots in the cup usually dosn't work very well. You get more noise but almost no blast getting through the nipple.I proved this with my bench cap tester. The BP charged cap shoots a spray of orange sparks through the nipple and this is working well for me. The single dot on top of the BP dosn't sound like it has any power at all,pretty wimpy in fact. It is the way to go for using toy pistol caps. Some of the braver soles are making there own priming to do this. Maybe they can chime in too.
n.n.schmidt

N.H.,
What type of measure do you use to provide consistancy of the black powder charge?
Do you press the roll cap hard or softly to seat it over the FFFg?
Have you done any tests to determine the minimum charge required to provide enough spark to set the main charge off consistantly?
Have you ever had the hammer move backwards using this method (too powerful a charge in a pistol)?
What has your ignition (of the main charge) percentage been using this method?

I think we need to keep in mind, as N.H. has pointed out, that a powerful charge does not correlate with successful ignition. Sparks do and the initial ignition charge can be fairly quiet so long as the temperature of the sparks exceed 801 F (the flashpoint of BP) at the face of the main charge.
Much as I would like to be able to set off the main charge with hot gases, it appears to me that the distance to be traveled by those hot gases makes it unlikely to ignite the main charge in a rifle (doubling the distance traveled reduces the energy to the cube root of the previous distance). Sparks need to be used and it shouldn't take much of a charge to light and push them to the face of the main charge.

Thanks N.H. for the info. It looks like you have developed a successful method for using a Tap-a-Cap or like equipment.

[Texantothecore]

For those of you following along, commercial caps are running about 6 cents apiece in my area of the wilderness and my preliminary figures using this method with a Tap-a-Cap would run about 6 caps/cent, a huge drop in cost with the advantage of an unlimited supply.

[ofitg]

N.H.,
I think we need to keep in mind, as N.H. has pointed out, that a powerful charge does not correlate with successful ignition. Sparks do and the initial ignition charge can be fairly quiet so long as the temperature of the sparks exceed 801 F (the flashpoint of BP) at the face of the main charge.
Much as I would like to be able to set off the main charge with hot gases, it appears to me that the distance to be traveled by those hot gases makes it unlikely to ignite the main charge in a rifle (doubling the distance traveled reduces the energy to the cube root of the previous distance). Sparks need to be used and it shouldn't take much of a charge to light and push them to the face of the main charge.

An interesting quote from Tenney Davis's book, Chemistry of Powder & Explosives -

Hot particles of solid (glass or heavy metal oxide) thrown out by a primer will set fire to black powder over a considerable distance, but they will fall onto smokeless powder without igniting it. The primers which produce the hottest gas are best suited for use with smokeless powder.

I believe those "hot particles of solid" are the sparks you refer to. A lot of the old primer compounds included antimony sulfide (source of heavy metal oxide?), some even contained ground glass.
Some "Super Bang" toy caps I have here list sand as an ingredient.

[Texantothecore]

An interesting quote from Tenney Davis's book, Chemistry of Powder & Explosives -

Hot particles of solid (glass or heavy metal oxide) thrown out by a primer will set fire to black powder over a considerable distance, but they will fall onto smokeless powder without igniting it. The primers which produce the hottest gas are best suited for use with smokeless powder.

I believe those "hot particles of solid" are the sparks you refer to. A lot of the old primer compounds included antimony sulfide (source of heavy metal oxide?), some even contained ground glass.
Some "Super Bang" toy caps I have here list sand as an ingredient.

It is amazing what you can learn on this board. I would never have thought that ground glass would set off a charge much less sand.

The color of sparking charcoal is gold as used in fireworks and the temperature of those sparks should be about 1800 F, based on their color. I had also considered that the exothermic reaction that charcoal generates would serve to preserve the higher temperature over the distance of flight to the main charge.

[ofitg]

TTTC, I'm not a chemist, so I'm still trying to put the pieces together.... I do believe you are correct about sparks being essential. I suspect that sand is a common ingredient in toy caps.
I don't see why charcoal couldn't contribute to the sparks as well. There are certainly a lot of "hot particles of solid" associated with BP..... we gotta clean em out of the barrel when we're done shooting.

[Texantothecore]

There are certainly a lot of "hot partcles of solid" associated with Bp....

'Zactly. Bp appears to be ideal for this application.

[n.h.schmidt]

I use a fired small rifle primer cup soldered to a copper wire for the measure. Leveled not heaped. The dot is seated just down on the powder,not pressed. No drama about the the cap throwing the hammer back. That part is completely normal.Probably less that normal back pressure. I only started using the BP late last year. I have likely shot 50 or more shots in three rifles total. All 50 fired the rifles and I used pyrodex as much as BP in the rifles. I have never before had this success level.
n.h.schmidt

[Texantothecore]

N.H.,
Just to close the loop on the great technique you have detailed, are you using soda cans for the cap case?

It ocurred to me that the problem with the caps lighting off during initial paper cap seating or during the seating on the nipple may be due the cap containing an abrasive such as sand or groundglass. It may be that the german caps don't have any.