For a dedicated CB rifle, 308 or 30/06

[Lefty Red]

Ok, its too cold to shoot, the range hasn't approved my membership yet, and I have the chance to get another rifle for deer thinning!

I can get either caliber for about the same price, used, and its going to be used for deer thinning out to 250-300 yards max. Casted Boolits only. So not going to run the Boolits at mach anything.

If I was going to get The Rifle and use it as my dream build, then its the 30/06 hands down. But plan on just bedding the stock, put decent glass on it, and tweaking here and there. Nothing major. One is a Remington 700 and the over is a Savage. Triggers on both seem good enough. Both rifles have a a good "feel" when shouldered, and that says something from a Lefty! I have used both brands and really don't have a basis. I do lean to Savages just because they also have a left handed version. But these are older rifles and both in left handed versions. I am not set up to reload either caliber, but do have a few .309 molds. Only .30 cal I have casted and reloaded for was the 30/30.

So was wondering if the 308 and its smaller case would serve better?
What is the heaviest bullet the 308 can run at that range?

Thanks for any and all feedback. Is it the veteran 30/06 or the newer .308?

Lefty

[pworley1]

I shoot cast in both. Mine will both shoot the 170 -190 grain out to 150, I don't hunt where I would ever get the 250-300 yard shot.

[scattershot]

That seems like an awful long way to poke something with a lead boolit, but my choice would probably be the .308. Brass is plentiful, and it seems that you would get more bang for your buck (so to speak) with the smaller case capacity, and the action is shorter, if that matters to you.

[Larry Gibson]

If the .308W has a 12" twist get that one for the probable higher velocity for the desired 250-300 yard max range with cast.

If both have 10" twists get the '06 simply for the longer neck.

Larry Gibson

[Bullshop]

I have both and shoot both with cast. If I were to choose as per your thread title " a dedicated CB rifle " I would choose the one with lesser case capacity.
Recently I have been shooting a 308 to 1000 yards with very pleasing results. My load uses an NEI design Walt called a DD. It has a long bore riding nose at bore diameter but at the origin of ogive has a narrow ring at groove diameter.
The ring is for alignment and to eliminate slump on ignition.
The boolit weighs 200gn with a BC of about 370. My load of 20gn of Alliant Steel gives a very consistent 2000 fps.
If for hunting I would choose the 30/06 as I want a bit higher velocity and use slower powders to get it. I have taken caribou with the 30/06 and cast boolits and with good boolit design and respectable velocity (2300 to 2400 fps) worked as well as any jacketed bullet at the same performance level. I compare an 30/06 so loaded to the factory loadings in 30/40 Kraig or 303 British.
You said dedicated cast boolit rifle but didn't say for hunting or target. My simple answer is Target=308 Hunting=30/06

[AlaskanGuy]

+1 for the 308 .... Near perfection in my book for deer, and will work well on just about everything else as well with the exception of the bigger stuff we have here in Ak... Can be loaded up or down, can shoot far and short... In my opinion, the 308 is about the most versatile cal there is....

AG

[Lefty Red]

So am I asking too much for a CB to be taken out to 300 yards and take a deer down?

[Lefty Red]

And to clearify, its mainly for deer hunting out to 300 yards max. But I do plan on shooting allot this summer as I am not use to a bolt. As A lefty, I normally just use a lever or SS.

[357maximum]

So am I asking too much for a CB to be taken out to 300 yards and take a deer down?

Not if the nut behind the gun is tight(YOU)/the gun/the boolit/the alloy/the load are up to it ....you are not asking too much. With much practice deer have been taken at 240yards with a 357MAX pistol cold bore.

Get a b-plex style scope and practice alot with a good accurate load......that is all you need for consistent kills at 300.......you will likely find that once you set up for 300 yard kills most the deer will wanna be shot at bowhunting range...but that is just a quirk that those that are prepared have to face.

[geargnasher]

Send either one to Goodsteel and get him to chamber a barrel in .30-'06 with his tight-neck reamer. That will give you the quickest path to success.

Gear

[Bullshop]

If your planning on shooting deer with cast 30s at 300 yards you might want to look into casting soft nose or maybe improve on your tracking skills.
Casting soft nose has been discussed here several time so seek and ye shall find.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I guess we all have opinions...so I'll add mine.
Keep looking till you find one in 358win
Jon

[GabbyM]

There is a bullet over on group buys in the works. 30 caliber 215 grain Hollow point. My name is on the list so I can play with this in my 30-06. 300 yards may be a reach but this thing looks like a great candidate for a shot at it. Have a 180gr HP that has a body to fit in the 308 Win. Am shooting it in my 30-06. Might shoot better from a 308 with a 1:12 twist barrel. Don't know and never have owned a 308. However I'd bet the 30-06 will shoot the 215 or 220 grain bullets better than a 308.

[Larry Gibson]

So am I asking too much for a CB to be taken out to 300 yards and take a deer down?

Here's my take on the question after 46 years of killing deer with cast bullets;

Hitting the deer at 300 yards with a cast bullet out of either rifle is not hard, Even hitting the deer in the heart/lung area with a cast bullet at 250-300 yards is not hard if enough actual field practice is done. Killing the deer at that range quickly so it doesn't go far and be lost with a cast bullet is the hard part. It is going to require a high enough velocity for a softer nosed cast bullet to still expand at that range for better terminal effect. A cast bullet having a softer nose for expansion with a decent BC such as the 311299 requires 2200 fps velocity to retain 1550 - 1600 fps at 300 yards to be effective.

That velocity (2200 fps) is not difficult at all to achieve with either cartridge. However, in a 10" twist it will be difficult to do so with sufficient accuracy at 300 yards to hit the heart/lung area of a deer with surety. Accuracy testing at 50 or 100 yards will not be sufficient to ascertain the actual accuracy capability at 200 yards let alone 300 yards. However, with a 12" twist 2150 - 2200+ fps with sufficient accuracy to hit the heart/lung area of a deer at 300 yards with surety can be done.....and a whole lot easier. With the 12" twist barrel, the right bullet and load perhaps even 2300 - 2400 fps is a real possibility. Hence, if given a choice then go with the 12" twist as there's not a lot of real difference between the 2 cartridges in and of themselves as far as cast bullet shooting. The difference between a 10 and 12" twist is the real difference.

PP'd cast bullets for either is also an alternative.

But let us keep in mind that 95+% of all big game are killed on the short side of 200 yards. Of that 95+% there is 80+% killed on the short side of 100 yards.

Larry Gibson

[357maximum]

A 4inch square plate hanging at 300 yards will soon tell you waht you wanna know...only the first shot counts!

If the buffalo bp guys can hit a bull in the **** at 1000 with a 45/70 you should be able to do what you wanna do at 300 with a 308/30-06......if you want it badly enough to practice until you are proficient. A standard 311041 puttin along at 300 will kill all the deer you want...it is up to the shooter to put it there...... 1st shot everytime.

[Lefty Red]

I have to clear up something, I do shoot allot and I ask these questions as a veteran shooter and hunter. I wouldn't shoot at an animal if I didn't think I could cleanly make the shot and humanely kill the animal. Reason I am asking these questions here. I want to know what the .30 cal CBs can do from actual hunters and shooters. This is the only website I support with my hard earned money because of this.

The shooting "range" is my max distance. We ranged it from the barn to the far ends of the fields. I just want to be sure if the CB can do it at the max range. If it can't, then I will practice with CB and hunt with jacketed bullets loaded hot. Plus our shooting platform will be a very sturdy table in the barn/lean to.

Lefty

[Lefty Red]

Here's my take on the question after 46 years of killing deer with cast bullets;

Hitting the deer at 300 yards with a cast bullet out of either rifle is not hard, Even hitting the deer in the heart/lung area with a cast bullet at 250-300 yards is not hard if enough actual field practice is done. Killing the deer at that range quickly so it doesn't go far and be lost with a cast bullet is the hard part. It is going to require a high enough velocity for a softer nosed cast bullet to still expand at that range for better terminal effect. A cast bullet having a softer nose for expansion with a decent BC such as the 311299 requires 2200 fps velocity to retain 1550 - 1600 fps at 300 yards to be effective.

That velocity (2200 fps) is not difficult at all to achieve with either cartridge. However, in a 10" twist it will be difficult to do so with sufficient accuracy at 300 yards to hit the heart/lung area of a deer with surety. Accuracy testing at 50 or 100 yards will not be sufficient to ascertain the actual accuracy capability at 200 yards let alone 300 yards. However, with a 12" twist 2150 - 2200+ fps with sufficient accuracy to hit the heart/lung area of a deer at 300 yards with surety can be done.....and a whole lot easier. With the 12" twist barrel, the right bullet and load perhaps even 2300 - 2400 fps is a real possibility. Hence, if given a choice then go with the 12" twist as there's not a lot of real difference between the 2 cartridges in and of themselves as far as cast bullet shooting. The difference between a 10 and 12" twist is the real difference.

PP'd cast bullets for either is also an alternative.

But let us keep in mind that 95+% of all big game are killed on the short side of 200 yards. Of that 95+% there is 80+% killed on the short side of 100 yards.

Larry Gibson

Thanks Larry, for the twist info. It is very helpful and much needing info!

I was going to ask in another area about PP the bullets. I have them for my muzzleloader, and they are amazing!

And I agree with everyone that game is taken closer than my max distance. In fact, I doubt I will take that shot due to the fact that its only a small area of the field we will be set up in. But always that possibility, just want to be sure. I always plan for the worste.

Lefty

[Lefty Red]

A 4inch square plate hanging at 300 yards will soon tell you waht you wanna know...only the first shot counts!

If the buffalo bp guys can hit a bull in the **** at 1000 with a 45/70 you should be able to do what you wanna do at 300 with a 308/30-06......if you want it badly enough to practice until you are proficient. A standard 311041 puttin along at 300 will kill all the deer you want...it is up to the shooter to put it there...... 1st shot everytime.

So true Max! So true!

[Lefty Red]

Larry

I agree with needing a soft point CB. I was thinking of using what ever bullet that I decided on and then "softing" the nose in the oven like I do with my 357 or 44 bullets. But really thinking about PP solving the problem as well.

Lefty

[Larry Gibson]

Lefty

PPing can definitely solve the problem with either cartridge.

However, if you want to remain a bit traditionalist (PPing, like BP and the hoola-hoop are passing fads.......though I did see a kid with a hoola-hoop a while back) a better and easier method (Bruceb's - there's a sticky on it somewhere) than using the oven is to use an alloy such as COWWs + 2% tin and then mixed at 50/50 with lead. WQ them out of the mould and wait 48+ hours for max hardening. Then stand in pan of cold water just over the front driving band. Heat with a propane torch until the noses just turn color and let sit to cool off. You are just softening the noses that way. Easy to do for the few you'll actually use hunting. The fully hard ones can be used for zero and practice.

Larry Gibson