First Rifle

[2Tite]

I'm really surprised no one has suggested putting a muzzle brake on whatever 30cal you might choose. I'd say get a good 308 and put a muzzle brake on it. It will recoil about like a 22 magnum if you shoot light loads in it. Accuracy will not be affected and components are easier to find. Some are going to say the brake will be a headache to keep clean. That's not my experience.......
Really, this is a good idea for low recoil and accuracy to 200 yds.

[Randy C]

Will some one correct me but 30 30 is one of the best deer brush or close range hunting guns made and you cant count how many deer and small game have been taken, or guns sold and It loves led, but It's is not a paper gun unless you shoot paper like I do, when I was younger I was proud That I could shoot a can every time you through it up in the air with a 22lr. The 30/30 one of the best hunting guns made look at when it started it's life but They have never been a paper guns, I could shoot a can with my 22lr every time you through it up in the air but I just new how to do it. and I can teach any kid how to do it with out trying but that is not shooting small groups on paper. If you want to know just ask. My grandfather taught me.

[Wayne Smith]

Let me correct you, Randy. The 30-30 is typically found in a lever gun, and the lever gun is not something one typically uses to shoot tight groups on paper. The 30-30 in a bolt or single shot is a different animal. The issue is the type of gun and it's limitations, not the cartridge.

[Randy C]

Wayne Smith Thanks for stepping in.
I don't want to step on any ones toes 30 30 is a hunting cartridge I can afford Corbin dies or what it takes to make a paper shooter out of it but it don't happen over the counter . I was trying to say if you want to buy ammo local their should be a range that can help you figure out what works in your Area for your needs, I think 22 250 or 223 should not be left out, so walk into WalMart or your local sporting's good store and see what you can buy. Buying ammo sucks right now. When it comes to casting you can build bullets to fit your gun but 30 30 is a better hunting cartridge, powder and led cost money. 22's cost less. PS I want a 22 250 for coyotes and plinking my 243 eats powder and led.

[Jammersix]

Won't be hunting, just paper targets.

[NVScouter]

I love my CZ 527 American in 22Hornet. It does shoot cast but be warned: .22 caliber cast boolits are a PITA to cast and even more to put gas checks on. My fat fingers have a heck of a time doing it, even my 25 87g mold is a pain. Step up to my LEE 113g .308 and its no problem.

[Jammersix]

Huh. How is the .308 for recoil? Can it be loaded soft?

[NVScouter]

Huh. How is the .308 for recoil? Can it be loaded soft?

My first try of that boolit was over an almost max Unique load. It hit same POI at 50 and 100y as my 165g Interlock load. It was about 4" lower at 200 and shot too low by 300 to matter.

However it was like shooting a .223. You could go even lower with good performance. Drop it down to 1400fps from 2000fps and watch the boolit hit in your scope. In comparison to that Unique my wife's reduced 125g NBT load had more recoil.

[WilliamDahl]

Huh. How is the .308 for recoil? Can it be loaded soft?

Although I don't see it listed over on the Low Velocity Data Page, the .30-30 and the .30-06 are listed. The .308 is between those two in case capacity, so you should be able to start with the .30-30 loads (e.g. 4.5-8.5 gr Red Dot) and work towards the .30-06 loads (e.g. 6.0-10.0 gr Red Dot). There are other powders listed on those pages -- I just listed the one that I use.

[NVScouter]

OR

You could use the massive amount of proven and safe data out there for shooting cast in a .308WIN.

Although I don't see it listed over on the Low Velocity Data Page, the .30-30 and the .30-06 are listed. The .308 is between those two in case capacity, so you should be able to start with the .30-30 loads (e.g. 4.5-8.5 gr Red Dot) and work towards the .30-06 loads (e.g. 6.0-10.0 gr Red Dot). There are other powders listed on those pages -- I just listed the one that I use.

[WilliamDahl]

OR

You could use the massive amount of proven and safe data out there for shooting cast in a .308WIN.

Well, I think that using the .30-30 and .30-06 data to determine load for the .308 would be acceptable also. The .30-06 can go as low as 6.0 gr of Red dot and that is a perfectly acceptable load in the .30-30 also, so it would be safe to say that 6.0 gr would be acceptable in the .308. The .30-30 can go as high as 8.5 gr of Red Dot and that is above the minimum in the .30-06, so it would be safe to say that 8.5 gr of Red Dot is below the maximum in the .308. As such, we can safely say that a Red Dot load with a 170 gr bullet of 6.0-8.5 gr is acceptable. How much lower or higher you can go from that is something that you can experiment with if you so desire. This load should give you around 1300 fps with the 170 gr bullet which means about 638 ft-lbs. For case volumes that are so similar and using the same bullet in all three calibers, I would not have a problem using this sort of interpolation as a starting point.

Here's a bullet trajectory calculator to play with if anyone is so interested:
http://www.shooterscalculator.com/ba...tory-chart.php

[starmac]

Didn't member Jim do a nice thread on going low with a 308, or am I thinking of something else.

[rem700-3]

243 and if I was buying my first it would be a handi rifle. You can swap barrels and play with any caliber you choose for $100-$150 and have a new rifle with every swap.

[Randy C]

Jammersix I don't think there is a cartridge mentioned that you would not fall in love with and they all would work for shooting paper some are famous for snipers and target shooting 223,243,270,308,30 06 standard calibers, if you go bigger they kick and cost money you can load them all down because you only want to shoot 200yds. each one is a little bigger then the next. and you can buy ammo everywhere. I have been blessed with most of my guns were given to me. Don't let me discourage you from any one cartridge I love the older calibers that were wild cats of there day its hard to find brass and ammo cost more, I cant get ether for my 243wssm any more. You should look at how much you want to shoot and what it will cost to reload. I might be close in saying my 45 70 with a 500 plus grain bullet cost money to reload that's a lot of led and about 65 shots to a pound of power there's 7000gr to a pound. A bullet in 223 or 22 Cal don't use as much powder or led, if you not shooting in a lot of wind you can shoot lighter bullets and 30 Cal usually take more powder and the led weighs a little more I have a lever 30 30 it is fun to hunt and shoot everybody should have one same with 22lr. Talk to you local range and or gun shop see what they will have ammo for to get you started if you talk to a range that you want to shoot at they mite tell you what the locals use and what they allow. I've always wanted a 22 250 for coyotes but the wind can be a problem, its cheaper to reload I've never shot a 17 rem center fire but the wind kicks it but to. But I cant tell you witch one will like led the best. PS I hate a gun that knocks my teeth loose I have them cut and a good pad put on and shoot lighter bullets in them . I did not want to get you off track 30 30 loves led.

[Randy C]

Wayne Smith
I never thought about shooting 30 Cal bullets like I shoot in my 308 in the 30/30 they are the same size and would shoot great in a single shot It could shoot a small dime size group. You could do that with any of the guns mentioned, some times I forget not every body has to put them all in one hole that's a very expensive gun, I couldn't do that if I tried any more my eyes are not that good any more.
Thanks Randy C

[MBTcustom]

I would like to put in my opinion and give 30-30 the nod.
And any of you that think that 30-30 is no good for paper punching, you should tell that to geargnasher. He's got a 30-30 that just gives him fits.....heh heh.

The problem is finding a bolt action 30-30 that can shoot as well as a good levergun. The Savage 340 C can be difficult.

[Wayne Smith]

Just remember that every gun that we deal with is a single shot. Some just reload faster. If you are only shooting paper why do you care how fast it reloads??

[M-Tecs]

I love my CZ 527 American in 22Hornet. It does shoot cast but be warned: .22 caliber cast boolits are a PITA to cast and even more to put gas checks on. My fat fingers have a heck of a time doing it, even my 25 87g mold is a pain. Step up to my LEE 113g .308 and its no problem.

I love mine also. I also agree that .22 caliber cast boolits are a PITA to cast and even more to put gas checks on. I would highly recommend the CZ 527 in 7.62 x 39. Thirty cals are easy to cast for and to get to shoot well.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/bolt_actio...x39_rifles.htm

http://www.gunblast.com/Paco_CZ527.htm

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...arrel+%26+Waln

[Randy C]

Just remember that every gun that we deal with is a single shot. Some just reload faster. If you are only shooting paper why do you care how fast it reloads??

I would have to say you are wright all most every gun I shoot I don't load the mag I put one in at a time. my wife would be pissed if I bought all my guns in double, I wish they were all single shots. I own one single shot and it is a 45/70 sharps my browning bar 11 safari 308 I load one at a time,243wssm,270 custom,30/30,303, Im retiring the Browning this year I don't like chasing my brass. I have not shot the 22 hornet is the ammo available like the 22/250 and 223?

[Blammer]

If low recoil is on the menu, I would shy away from a 30-30. All that I have shot really put a pounding on you. I think it is the straight stock design that causes this.

I would have to recommend a 308 or a 30-06 with a brake, as stated earlier.
I would also look for a good large soft recoil pad on the stock, this will help a bunch.

Powder and bullet wt will be a big player in recoil.