My test of the 6.5 Cruise Missile

[swheeler]

MS good for you, you may have to block his phone number if he has it though

[waksupi]

As has been said before, no Starmetal input whatsoever is allowed on this board. Do not repeat. Last warning.

[madsenshooter]

Oh, I see, sorry. Joe don't email me! Bummer, some good stuff in that disappearing post. Waksupi, problem taken care of personally!

[swheeler]

Thanks Ric!!!!!!!!!

[NVScouter]

I know why you two are going at it. I just think it muddles up decent threads. Also it takes two and 45.2.1 sure can't seem to be civil. Apparently he can't get over his bruised ego at a mold that somebody can't cut right.

The running at the mouth should be deleted and thread left in tact. If anybody like 45.2.1 has their results to add then great!

[kens]

I have a question, if I may.
I read this post and noticed the boolit was sized and or lubed .268 or other sizes. But, what groove dia. was the original rifle in this post slug at?
Did I miss that?

[Larry Gibson]

I have a question, if I may.
I read this post and noticed the boolit was sized and or lubed .268 or other sizes. But, what groove dia. was the original rifle in this post slug at?
Did I miss that?

Good question, forgot to mention that. The test rifle slugs out at .266 groove diameter with a pin measured .254 bore. The throat tapers from .268 at the case mouth to .266 at the leade.

Larry Gibson

[leadman]

Maybe instead of trying to fix the CM we work on determining what boolit works the best for the majority of guns and do a group buy on it?
I read NOE is months out on orders and when I spoke to Andy Lee about a week ago he said they are 6 to 8 weeks out. I was involved in the last group buy a few years ago from Lee so know what went on then. I do recommend that the lube grooves be about 1/4 of the depth of the Makarov special order mold so the boolits will come out of the cavities easier.

I have since bought at least 8 to 10 of their recent molds and quality is much improved as well as dimensions of the cast boolits from the molds.

I also thought I might call Andy Lee the first of the week and get him to read this thread so he has an understanding of what is happening with this mold. I know Midsouth is responsible for the specs but it is a Lee name on a mold that is not working very well.

[Nrut]

leadman,
Sounds like a plan to me..
I would much prefer NOE though..

[kens]

Another question, please.
How much does the boo lit swell up when the lands are engraved into the driving bands?
The matériel displaced by the engraved rifling must go somewhere, the boolit must get either longer or fatter, or a little of both.
Since the CM is very long anyway, and it is already .002 over, I hunch a bet that it is being squeezed too much, causing high friction (resistance) going down the barrel.
Can I question a test of that thing sized closer to groove dia.?

[Larry Gibson]

kens

The problem is the nose needed to be sized partially (half in front of the front driving band) to .266 and .264 (front of nose) just to get the bullet up into the throat. Thus the nose was at groove diameter during the test. And yes, the alloy displaced by the lands has to go somewhere. My guess is also that the bullet had to have elongated. Also the bullet may have further elongated because the alloy in the .268 sized driving bands also has to go some where. That may be swaged out into the lube grooves though(?) but I also suspect it adds to elongation of the bullet. If I sized the bullet to .266 on the driving bands it would jus be a long cylinder and someone would get very upset of the further sizing down of his bullet and also that it then did not "fit" the throat as he is so adamant and very critical about.

Other than testing a similar CM cast of the correct dimensions I really think that, as does Dutch and others, that we have done about as much as we can with the oversized CM in the 6.5 Swede. I do have a few bullets left and may try them sized down to .266 just to see but it will be with just the one charge of 27 gr RL22. Not sure when I will get to it though.

Larry Gibson

[Good Cheer]

Reading this thread with interest. The 6.5 Dutch is getting ready for boolits and key holing is going to be a characteristic to be deciphered during determining what's up.

[leadman]

I have been coating my boolits with the Hi-Tek coating and noticed that when I sized the boolits down by as much as .004" that the driving bands did not close up of spread. I did measure a couple of boolits before and after sizing and they did grow in length.
I have a 41 cal Lyman mold that is badly out of round and tried some of these coated with the Hi-Tek to see what would happen. They did get round and appeared to be good boolits. I shot some and they were as terrible as before sized.

On the new boolit design would a Loverin style work for the military 6.5 guns? I have a Rolling block in 8X58RD that I shoot both the Karabiner and the Lyman 160gr Loverin style. The Loverin fills the throat just as well as the Karabiner when seated out and is more accurate. The nose could be modified to make it better for hunting.

[Good Cheer]

Time to watch the group buy discussions!

[Larry Gibson]

Leadman

The 266455, the Kurtz bullet (any rendition of it), the 266469 and the BRP 269469 are all Loverin designs and do fill up the throat. I consider the 266455 and the GB Kurtz bullets to fit the case neck and throats of 6.5 Swedes just about as good as it will get.

Larry Gibson

[JeffinNZ]

I can't help but think the CM belongs in "The Twilight Zone".

[45 2.1]

I can't help but think the CM belongs in "The Twilight Zone".

Well... Oldfeller, the member who ran the first Cruise Missile GB with Lee, wanted a long hunting boolit. He also said getting Miss Karlina (the 6.5 Swede rifle) to shoot well was an equivalent of a PhD in terms of cast boolit knowledge. If you go here: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...of-1893-6-5x55, you will find the 1894 bullet was 32mm long ( 1.2598" ). The Cruise Missile is 1.2530" long ready to load IF you have one of the original molds and don't size the heck out of it (which is unnecessary when done correctly). Not really a cause for concern there as the CM is shorter than the original boolit. So, it really is a question of how well you take care of business with the Swede rifle and the cartridges you put in it. I know those long Swedish bullets shoot well as those are the first ones I shot out of a Swede rifle. I also know the Cruise Missile shoots just as well as those military long RN's did many years ago for me. We also know the Mid South/Lee molds aren't up to the job from several tests here. Shooting cast boolits well isn't something that you intuit, it's something that you usually have to learn how to do from reading or from someone else, just like everything else in the world.

[kens]

OK. I re read this and see a .266 bore, with a boolit nose .269.
I don't see how this will work.

[Larry Gibson]

OK. I re read this and see a .266 bore, with a boolit nose .269.
I don't see how this will work.

That was the problem and need to "size the heck out of it" just to get the oversize CM to go into the Swede throat.

Larry Gibson

[kens]

That was the problem and need to "size the heck out of it" just to get the oversize CM to go into the Swede throat.

Larry Gibson

So, that is a oversize CM.
Is there a 'standard size' CM?