What red dot sight for SRH .480 Ruger?

[Naphtali]

I've been investing time to learn more about red dot sights. The result includes some answers -- and more questions, of course.

Among the conventional red dot sight systems, Ultradot appears to have the best reputation with pistol shooters. Their warranty is excellent, list prices are competitive, and they are not made in Red China. This should have been the end of the quest.

Unfortunately, I couldn't leave it alone. I am put off by the clumsiness of having a telescopic sight-like device atop my SRHs. A second class of red dot sights is significantly smaller, lighter, more unobtrusive. Among them are: Docter red dot; Trijicon red dot; Ultradot L/T; Burris Fastfire. Apparently, these devices also allow through-lens-view of target, and they automatically adjust dot intensity according to ambient light.

The devices are significantly lighter than conventional devices. None should have trouble with recoil dislodging device from mount system. They mount via Weaver system, so mounting is no sweat. Since the devices are mounted predominantly on semiautomatic pistols, it is likely that recoil from my 480s will prove no problem. At least two sights claim to be so petite that they can be used with standard (M1911??) holsters.

The sights are more expensive than most conventional red dot devices. Materials of manufacture vary significantly. Some are plastic with Acrylic lenses. Some are aluminum with optical glass lenses. Some of the optical glass is low-end, BaK-7 in binocular-speak, but I doubt this is significant for a device whose effective range would be less than 150 meters.

And red dot size varies from a smallest of 3.5 MOA to 11 MOA. This may be the place to decide among these devices.

For use with a Super Redhawk .480 Ruger, what single dot size will be easiest to use from off-the-muzzle through 80 meters?

From my brief examination of the Millet Multidot device, I acquired the 8 MOA dot easily. But I was not at a shooting range. I did not shoot. I had no opportunity to learn to use the device with any size dot. And the examination did not include sighting at any range greater than about 10 yards.

[Tom W.]

I've been toying with the Idea of the Burris on mine, The company assured me that the .480 recoil wouldn't hurt it. Funding is another problem, so for now I'll be happy with the Leupold 2X EER on it.

[Naphtali]

Tom: Burris' warranty on the Fastfire is but one year. The others I've looked at warrant for a lifetime. One, I believe, may warrant without regard to who bought the device.

What is your feeling about dot size?

[BigSlick]

Naphtali,

You may want to call each mfr and inquire about the sights holding up to heavy recoil of a stout revolver caliber.

I called Trijicon regarding a Reflex II I have mounted on my 500SW. They adamantly claimed it would hold up to the recoil, no problem.

First cylinder out of the tube, the sun shade disentigrated and the mount bent.

Millett said their 3 MOA dot would 'probably' hold up. If it didn't, just send it in for repair.

First round fired, trashed the scope. I sent it in and they denied my claim indicating the recoil damage wasn't covered.

I still use the Reflex II, without the sun shade, and with a different mount, it works, but it would be nice to adjust the intensity. The Millett I have on my Ruger Mark III has been perfect in every respect. But, that isn't exactly the same application of course.

I have a Leupold 2x8 that has held up nicely, but it is boat anchor heavy. I haven't tried a Burris equivalent, but hear good things about them. I have used Burris scopes in the past (for a short while) and generally had mediocre to good results.

Not trying to tell you what to do of course, just conveying some costly experiences on my part.

HTH,

'Slick
________
VAPORIZER REVIEWS

[Tom W.]

Not knowing for sure, I'd think a 3 M.O.A. dot should be small enough for the ranges that you indicate. I'd have to look through some and see. I spend a lot of time at www.riflescopes.com looking around.

[oldfart]

ah you should just trade that old ruger 480 for my ruger 44

[Tom W.]

Sorry, I already have one of each!

[44man]

Don't even hesitate! Ultra Dot.
I got tired of destroying things. After thousands of shots with my .475 and 45-70, the Ultra Dot is still perfect.

[fecmech]

I believe ( but am not sure) that the Trijicon is a rebranded Optima/JPoint. I had 3 of them on my Browning Hipower 9mm slide and they did not hold up . JP enterprises to their credit did refund my money and sent me a free J point which I have on my .22 S&W Kit gun. I would recommend the Ultra Dot also as I have one mounted on the slide of my 1911 .45. It's been on there 2 years now in excess of 5000 rds and I've never had to adjust the zero. It rides the slide for every shot slamming back with the recoil and slamming shut with the reloaded round. Impresses the hell out of me!

[Naphtali]

I've done some of the background.

Millett identifies only their new Zoom Dot as being reliable on .480 Ruger. Being a conventional-sized device, I'm not rushing to get one.

Trijicon claims that they also manufacture the Docter Red Dot sight. I cannot yet confirm manufacturing location or details. Trijicon's body is polymer -- why dress up plastic with a silly non-specific name? -- and the lens is Acrylic. Docter Red Dot's body is aluminum and the lens is optical glass. Dimensions of these two sights are different. Other than resembling one another, as do all others, these devices have little in common -- dot sizes, magnification, dimensions, etc. Apparently, there is one distributor for Trijicon AND Docter, and another solely for Docter? Unless, of course, one or both is pulling my leg.

Burris Fastfire has an aluminum body with optical glass lens. While they warrant most products for a lifetime, this product is warranted for one year. Why?

I have no information on Ultradot L/T yet.

Until today I was unaware that TruGlo offered Dot-Point. I have queried them.
***
Tom: We may be chatting at cross-purposes. You want the dot as small as possible while being able to use it. I want the dot as large as possible while being able to use it at 80 meters. I anticipate the large dot will be no liability at closer ranges since it covers less target.

I do not have experience with red dot sights to determine how large I can go without penalty. I suspect 11 MOA is too large, and I'm nearly certain 3.5 MOA is needlessly small. But this leaves a lot of "I have no clue" sizes.

[Naphtali]

Here is text of Trijicon's reply to my query**************
1. I own Ruger Super Redhawk revolvers in .480 Ruger caliber. Will the Trijicon red dot sight function correctly and safely on these heavy recoiling revolvers?
Our TRD is seeing use on the new S&W .460 and .500 Will the sight mount using Weaver mount adapter? The MS22 mount is available for Ruger revolvers but, if yours has a rail the MS19 works

2. When aiming the Trijicon red dot sight at the target, do I view the target THROUGH THE SIGHT?
YES

3. When aiming the Docter red dot sight at the target, do I view the target THROUGH THE SIGHT?
YES

4. What is the field of view through the sight when viewed at "aiming" distance from eyes?
All you DO NOT see is the little obscured by the edge of the sight itself

5. I have vision problems. I am concerned about being able to see the dot in certain light. Does the sight automatically adjust dot brightness to ambient light conditions? If it does, is the adjustment user programmable? If the user cannot program brightness adjustment, can programming be overridden?
Both use photo sensors that are non-adjustable-brighter in bright light

6. My experience with Acrylic lenses in spectacles is not good. Lenses scratch easily. And precision of grind is poor when compared with optical glass. How did you address these problems on the Trijicon red dot?
It still requires some care and maintenance but, is very tough

7. You have available the Trijicon variation and the Docter Optic red dot sights Please identify warranties of each. For repairs I would follow the instructions on your repairs page?
TRD has lifetime warranty, repairs at our factory. Docter has 2 year warranty, repairs direct to Germany

Sincerely,
Eric Lockhart
Customer Service
1-800-338-0563
ext 148
www.trijicon.com

[22cf45]

Fecmech offers very good advice. Go with the proven Ultra Dot. I do the same as he does, I have Ultra Dots mounted on the slides of my competition .45 acp's. I have had them on for many years and generally shoot them 4000-5000 rounds per year. I've never needed to have one repaired. Up and down the shooting line, Ultra Dot's prevail by a vast margin. Every now and then, someone trys one of the others, but soon they are right back to Ultra Dot.
Phil

[Naphtali]

Fecmech offers very good advice. Go with the proven Ultra Dot. I do the same as he does, I have Ultra Dots mounted on the slides of my competition .45 acp's. I have had them on for many years and generally shoot them 4000-5000 rounds per year. I've never needed to have one repaired. Up and down the shooting line, Ultra Dot's prevail by a vast margin. Every now and then, someone trys one of the others, but soon they are right back to Ultra Dot.
Phil

Phil: Are you and Fecmech referring to the Ultradot L/T? If YES, how is it mounted on the .45 ACPs slides? Do you have difficulty acquiring the 4 MOA dot? Does Ultradot warrant the L/T as they do their conventional red dot sights? Or do they "do a Burris" and reduce the warranty to much shorter duration (one year for Burris)?

[fecmech]

Naphtli--I did not even know that Ultra Dot had the L/T! My experience is with the 30 mm tube type sight (click on the thumbnail under my previous post). They have a long history as rugged sights. In answer to some of your other questions I think the 4 min dot is a good all around size. It will give decent precision out to 100 yds or better. Not as good as a scope but a heck of a lot better than irons. To me one downside to the sights that set the brightness automatically is they are usually too bright for pecision shooting. This is especially true on bright sunny days when it will radiate a star like effect that will about double the area covered on the target by the dot. This will be agravated by the tiny scratches you get in plastic lenses. My optima 2000 with 4 min dot on a sunny day would completely cover a 5" black bull at 50 yds. When shooting for serious I set my dot brightness to the minimum level that I can see it plainly, that gives me the most precise aiming point. Hope this helps. Nick

[Naphtali]

Naphtli--I did not even know that Ultra Dot had the L/T! My experience is with the 30 mm tube type sight (click on the thumbnail under my previous post). They have a long history as rugged sights.

I believe it became available in 2007. See my graphic on previous entry. This second class of red dot sights looks similar, as do the conventional red dot sights. So far Ultradot support has not furnished any information on the L/T sight beyond what is on the web sight. And, so far, no one seems to have used it or owned it.

But as you point out, it is an Ultradot product.

[mike in co]

if you have not used them there are some other things to know about the low profile dots vs the tube dots.

for the record i have three AIMPOINT's. i have shot others, but the aimpoints are the best in my opinion.

i shoot one on an nra action pistol...cz85 9mm.
one on an ar15 for three gun competiton, and
one on a ruger srh in 44 rem mag for 50 yd steel matches

the only place i get to see comparisons is at the 44 steeel matches. when you raise your pistol, the tube helps align on the target, meaning the dot is there too. i have watched several of my competitors with non-tube/low profile dots. when they come up on the target, they are moving the gun around trying to find the dot!
you have heard the term aim small, miss small ??
stick with small moa dots. i have a 1 moa on the nra action pistol,a 2 moa on the srh, and the ar15 has a 2moa( this is a 4 moa with a forward 2x lens, net results a 2x lens with a 2moa dot).
you will havve more trouble seeing your target in brush/shadows than not seeing the dot due to brightness.
mike
you will learn to like that big ugly hump on top of your gun........

[Naphtali]

i have watched several of my competitors with non-tube/low profile dots. when they come up on the target, they are moving the gun around trying to find the dot!
you have heard the term aim small, miss small ??
stick with small moa dots. i have a 1 moa on the nra action pistol,a 2 moa on the srh, and the ar15 has a 2moa( this is a 4 moa with a forward 2x lens, net results a 2x lens with a 2moa dot).
you will havve more trouble seeing your target in brush/shadows than not seeing the dot due to brightness.
mike
you will learn to like that big ugly hump on top of your gun........

The difficulty you describe for non-tube/low profile dot users is remarkably like my problem with pistol scopes. Are the competitors having difficulty acquiring the dot because they are using small dots in their effort toward precise aiming, or because the sight's field of view is narrow, or both??

Extreme precision is unneeded and probably retrograde. Being able to hold ± 3 inches of point of aim is adequate at 80 meters. From my difficulty seeing pistol scopes reticles, I think bigger reticles are easier for me to acquire. Regarding brighter vs. dimmer red dots being easier to acquire, perhaps adjustable brightness is better alternative to automatically adjustable brightness.

I am nearly in a Catch-22 situation. I know what does not work for me, and I think I know why. But I don't have access to what I think will work for me. And errors in judgment will be expensive.

[22cf45]

Naphtali wrote- Phil: Are you and Fecmech referring to the Ultradot L/T? If YES, how is it mounted on the .45 ACPs slides? Do you have difficulty acquiring the 4 MOA dot? Does Ultradot warrant the L/T as they do their conventional red dot sights? Or do they "do a Burris" and reduce the warranty to much shorter duration (one year for Burris)?

Naphtali
I'm sorry but i know nothing about the Ultradot L/T. I use the 1" Ultradot with 4 dot sizes available, 4, 8, 12, & 16 min. At present, I'm shooting the 8 min dot but at other times, I have used the 4 and the 12. I know high Masters that use all the sizes except the 16, so I think dot size is mostly a personal perference issue. As is dot intensity. You'll notice Fecmech said he prefers the minimum brightness, while I want it as bright as possible just short of causing halo's. I feel the brighter dot helps me to concentrate on it. However, Brian Zins says not to look at the dot, but to look at the target. Hard to argue with an 8 time National Champion.

If I am having troube acquiring the dot, it is not the fault of the dot size, but rather, the fact that I do not have my arm and wrist locked in the proper way, proper grip, or I haven't placed my feet at the correct angle to insure a return to my natural point of aim through the recoil recovery process. When I have done these things properly, the dot naturally returns. This is absolutely necessary particularly in the rapid fire stage, i.e. 5 shots, 10 seconds., Dont have time to look for it.
Phil

[bobthenailer]

i currently have over 20 red dot sights and have owned over 40 over the years , ive been useing them since aimpoint came out with the 1000 . i have them on some rifles and alomost all of my pistol from 22 to 454 casull . the ultra dot is a excellent red dot sight , with a lifetime warentee but the field of view is usually smaller than most scopes of the 30 mm size. the aimpoint has held up well on my 44s and 454 casulls it is my favorite brand of red dot sight , i have 6 of them . on my 6 inch 454 i wanted it to be as compact and as light as possible so i tried a doctor sight 1st and 2 ed generation the dot is always to bright which for me distractes me from makeing a accurate shot, i tried the pride /fowler special ops sight which is like a doctor but with a off, auto and full brightness switch, in the auto position the sight only goes to about 3/4 brightness which gives you a nice round dot in all shooting condtions and if you should need full power jut push the switch, another advantage is you can change the battery without removing the sight through a trap door, the quallity is as good or better than the doctor . and so far it has held up to about 1500 rounds of 260 gr bullets at 1000 fps 400 rounds of 300 gr at 1450 fps and 200 rounds of 260 gr at 1800fps without lossing adjustments. they are avalible from midway. as for dot size i would get from 3 to a 5 min dot. dont get the trupoint sight i had 2 when they first came out they were the 2 worst red dot sights ive ever see they were usless the paralexx was so bad even if you moved your head a little the point of impact changed. bob

[Newtire]

I haven't tried a Burris equivalent, but hear good things about them. I have used Burris scopes in the past (for a short while) and generally had mediocre to good results.

I had a Burris 2X on a 3-screw Super Blackhawk that held up to the .44 mag OK but target aquisition was lousy. FWIW