What style and shape of cast bullet is best for the paper patch?

[Stars & Bars]

I am an experienced bullet caster for hand guns and my trapdoor 45-70. I experiment mixing my alloys. Some bullets I use gas checks, others I do not. To date I do not use cast bullets in my HP rifles. I have never paper patched a bullet and am very interesting in getting started. I have read much of the wisdom shared by the experienced concerning using paper, however, I am at a loss as to what style / shape of cast bullet is best served by the paper patch. Scattered here and there, I have read opinions about smooth bullets, bullets with lubricating grooves and mention of Lee’s micro grooved bullets, (I have Lyman and RCBS molds, none made of aluminum). I would like to start with a .30 cal bullet in a 308 bolt-action as a test bed. What casting should I purchase? Smooth, grooved, micro-grooved? Pointed, round nose, semi-wad cutter? Flat base, beveled base, boat-tail? Collecting molds can get rather expensive. With that in mind, I would appreciate some sound advice as to what type of bullet I should use to start my paper patch endeavor. As I gain experience I will expand my rifle mold collection, nevertheless, I would appreciate sound advice on a good start. Thanks!

[pdawg_shooter]

I have always had my best luck with standard grease groove bullets sized to .001/.0015 over BORE diameter. I have had, and sold 6 "slicks" molds. The grooves give the paper something to grip and hold a bit more lube. The Lee micro groove will work if you don't have to size them too much. Another advantage to standard bullets is with the correct sizer one bullet will work in any number of rifles. The 311041 sized to .3015 works great in my 308 and 3006. My 30-30 Marlin likes the .3025 and my SMLE nees a .304 to get the best accuracy. I have even patched some .308 jacketed up to .319 for an old Mauser.

[Stars & Bars]

pdawg_shooter, I appreciate your response. I looked up the 311041 and see it is a gas check casting. Normally I would use a gas check, however some 'threads' advised not to use a gas check because the sharp edge of the gas check will cut the paper patch. It is also said the gas check is not needed as shielding when using paper. Do you use a gas check when using paper? Also, have you tried Lee's aluminum molds? I prefer Lyman's cast steel and have some RCBS cast iron but never tried aluminum.

[Stars & Bars]

Pdawg_shooter, I again read your reply. If I understand correctly, [1] using the 311041 mold you cast a .309 bullet, size it down to .3015, apply the paper and resize to bore diameter +.001 ……… in your 30-06 would this be in the .309 size range with paper? [2] You lube the grooves to give the paper something to grip?

[Nrut]

Stars & Bars,
Take a look at the bullet in this thread..
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...r-PP-mould-NOE

It was designed for PP to be shot out of a 30 cal.
You don't need to use the gas check pictured in the drawing..
You don't need to size it down to .301 because it casts at .301"..
You just wrap the bullet with the correct thickness of paper to give you a >>wrapped diameter just under your throat size<<..
Lubricate the the bullet and load it..
Use a starting jacketed bullet load preferably with a slow powder..
If you have it try 760 win. or H414..
Those are the basics to give you a starting point..

You should also do a search and study case prep threads in this forum..

Be sure to read the stickys up at the top of the this forum

[Stars & Bars]

I needed that clarification! Thanks. Using my own mix of 90% lead, 5% tin and 5% antimony I cast and reload for 32acp, 380acp, 9mm w/gc , 38spl w/gc and 45-70 w/gc . I tried 357 w/gc but had problems leading the barrel. All of my large caliber rifles I use H4895 with purchased copper jackets. I really enjoy this hobby, always in pursuit of the tightest group I can achieve. Now that I’m retired it’s time I expand my efforts to include paper patched rifle bullets and my learning curve is high. From what I read on this website, I may need to add more lead to my alloy for rifle bullets?

[pdawg_shooter]

pdawg_shooter, I appreciate your response. I looked up the 311041 and see it is a gas check casting. Normally I would use a gas check, however some 'threads' advised not to use a gas check because the sharp edge of the gas check will cut the paper patch. It is also said the gas check is not needed as shielding when using paper. Do you use a gas check when using paper? Also, have you tried Lee's aluminum molds? I prefer Lyman's cast steel and have some RCBS cast iron but never tried aluminum.

I do not gas check when patching. I do prefer a G.C. bullet for patching. Makes it easier to twist the tails without tearing the paper. I have a number of Lee molds and like them fine.

[pdawg_shooter]

Pdawg_shooter, I again read your reply. If I understand correctly, [1] using the 311041 mold you cast a .309 bullet, size it down to .3015, apply the paper and resize to bore diameter +.001 ……… in your 30-06 would this be in the .309 size range with paper? [2] You lube the grooves to give the paper something to grip?

My mold drops .310 and I size them down to whatever size fit the rifle. Two wraps of 16# paper adds just about .010 to the bullet. After they dry I clip the tails, lube the paper, and run them through a push through die. This removes excess lube and "irons on" the paper. Done correctly, it just about takes a knife to remove a patch.

[pdawg_shooter]

I needed that clarification! Thanks. Using my own mix of 90% lead, 5% tin and 5% antimony I cast and reload for 32acp, 380acp, 9mm w/gc , 38spl w/gc and 45-70 w/gc . I tried 357 w/gc but had problems leading the barrel. All of my large caliber rifles I use H4895 with purchased copper jackets. I really enjoy this hobby, always in pursuit of the tightest group I can achieve. Now that I’m retired it’s time I expand my efforts to include paper patched rifle bullets and my learning curve is high. From what I read on this website, I may need to add more lead to my alloy for rifle bullets?

Pure lead (2% tin added for fillout) is good to around 2200fps. COWW will work to around 2600fps and lynotype doesn't seem to have a top end, at least not one I can find. I loaded a 300RUM to just over 3000fps and got right at 1" groups to prove a point once. (three shot groups.)

[Stars & Bars]

I’m just getting knowed-up to begin paper patching, from Amazon I ordered The Paper Jacket, Loading the Black Powder cartridge and Cast Bullets For the Black Powder cartridge by Paul Matthews. His books were highly recommended by someone on this website and there is always more for me to learn. Hopefully it won’t be long and I’ll be loading my own paper patch boolits ‘to prove a point’ too

[Stars & Bars]

I’m just getting knowed-up to begin paper patching, from Amazon I ordered The Paper Jacket, Loading the Black Powder cartridge and Cast Bullets For the Black Powder cartridge by Paul Matthews. His books were highly recommended by someone on this website and there is always more for me to learn. Hopefully it won’t be long and I’ll be loading my own paper patch boolits ‘to prove a point’ too

[pdawg_shooter]

I was told you couldn't push a lead bullet that fast in a 1/10 twist. Too many RPM. Bullet would fly apart or some such thing. Well they worked fine. I have a post on here somewhere about it.

[Stars & Bars]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...r-PP-mould-NOE -- "Just checking to see if there is any interest in approaching NOE to clone the 301618 and or the 301620 paper patch mould?"

Nrut - I checked the link you provided. There seems to be interest in a .301 diameter bullet. Why

[Dan Cash]

Stars & Bars,
I got started patching with advice from the fellows on this forum and there is a lot of good advice. On mould buying, I do what pdawg does and cast a larger bullet then size it down. It is a more versatile solution.
I am using 3 different moulds, a Lyman 31141 and a 311291 and an Accurate mould that I had made for my .30-40. All three moulds are cut for gaschecks though I don't use the check with a patched bullet. I have tried it and there seems no difference in accuracy. As stated, without the check the bullet is easier to wrap.
I size to .303 and apply 2 wraps of a tough tracing paper that measures .002 thick. The bullet is wet wrapped and when dry, lubed and fired without further sizing. It measures .310-.311. I lube with a lube that I use for black powder by smearing lube with my fingers; a little goes a long way. If the tails are short as wrapped, I don't cut them as once again, with my rifles, It does not seem to matter as accuracy is the same.
The dimensions given work in 2 different Marlin .30-30 rifles, an 1895 Winchester .30-40 and a Savage 99 .300 Savage. Attached is a picture of a group shot a few days ago with the .300 and the 95 Win using aperture sights at 100 yards, fore end rest.

[Stars & Bars]

Dan, after reading advise from others I ordered the 311291, I like the durability of the RN and it is so versatile it will fit many of my cartridges, 7.62x54, 30-06, 303 Brit, 300 Sav. In the past I have used paper to put a super-fine edge on cutting instruments, with this in mind, I am concerned with excessive bore wear due to abrasive paper. I read do not use high clay content paper, use cotton based paper, #16, tracing paper, etc....... This leads to my next question for this group. Is there such a material as the 'optimum paper' for minimal bore wear and excellent shedding when fired or is it 6 of one - 1/2 dozen of the other ---- is paper choice a personal preference of what's available issue?

[Digital Dan]

S&B, read Matthews' works and follow his advise. It is a good foundation and better you hear it from him than me. What you get out of paper patching from an accuracy standpoint is related to the consistency of your bullet builds. What you get from a terminal performance perspective related to alloy and form. You can drive soft alloys a lot faster with paper patch than GG. Soft alloy makes a wicked mess of a critter's innards.

[Dan Cash]

Regarding paper versus bore wear, avoid high clay content and possibly recycled paper as many contain metal particles which may contribute to rapid bore wear. However, I doubt any paper without clay in it is as abrasive as metal jacketed bullets, particularly steel jackets. Shoot until the bore is gone then rebore or rebarrel. With the shortage of propellant and primers these days, I doubt we can shoot enough to wear the bore out.

[Stars & Bars]

Woo-Hoo! ------ Last week I received a large order I placed with Powder Valley last January. There is no shortage of powder and primers at my place

[Stars & Bars]

With the EPA order to shut down the large lead smelter in Missouri on December 31st, I am seriously considering buying a pallet of Lyman #2 from Rotometals (and maybe some super-hard) for personal use and as an investment. I suspect in the not so far off future, lead will increase in value faster than precious metals. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/12/21...to-green-ammo/ I also suspect the hoarding will soon begin and lead bullets will fly off the shelves. In the spirit of hoarding, I just ordered the one thing I cannot reload, .22LR ......... I wish I could find a good deal on .22 WMR but these are few and far between. www.ammoseek.com

[pdawg_shooter]

Dan, after reading advise from others I ordered the 311291, I like the durability of the RN and it is so versatile it will fit many of my cartridges, 7.62x54, 30-06, 303 Brit, 300 Sav. In the past I have used paper to put a super-fine edge on cutting instruments, with this in mind, I am concerned with excessive bore wear due to abrasive paper. I read do not use high clay content paper, use cotton based paper, #16, tracing paper, etc....... This leads to my next question for this group. Is there such a material as the 'optimum paper' for minimal bore wear and excellent shedding when fired or is it 6 of one - 1/2 dozen of the other ---- is paper choice a personal preference of what's available issue?

Try this...sharpen your knife and go cut 100 sheets of paper. Now resharpen that same knife and see how many jacketed bullets you can cut with it. Don't think I could live long enough to shoot out a barrel with PP bullets. Throat erosion will kill it long before the paper can.