Family Feud

[bosterr]

Would adding a toilet bowl ring to my lube make it cleaner?

Only if it's the anti-microbial type.

[44man]

Only if it's the anti-microbial type.

Now we are getting somewhere!

[btroj]

Come on 44man, you aren't fooling me.

You wouldn't use a toilet bowl ring unless it was made from Felix lube! I am sure you have targets that show better bowl accuracy with your "weapon" and can regale us with stories of the residue left by Alox........

[bhn22]

We live in a society of instant gratification. We have drive through "restaurants" everywhere, instant coffee, "buy it now", credit cards (instant money), limited access highways, overnight shipping, and the rest. You get the idea. This is something you can't learn instantly, it's not like making a sammich. There is research involved, and you really, really need to understand the material. This is why some of the responses here are so wordy. This is also why many of my replys never make it to the forum. I delete them unsent. We don't like to simply give out a number. At times, its especially important for you to know why the answer is what it is. The next time you try this, circumstances might not be the same, and you must be aware of the differences, the potential pitfalls, and even potential dangers. We're glad to help, but you also need to help yourself too. Meet us halfway, huh?

[44man]

I have to agree. The best sit and think a lot, research and think more. You need imagination to picture what happens in a gun and to just slam loads together the same way will get you in a rut.
When I got my 45-70 BFR revolver, it took a month before I shot the first round. I learned the gun first. As I got other calibers there was NOTHING for loads.
Look in your piles of manuals and find 45-70 revolver, .475 Linebaugh or .500 JRH loads. Some you can find on sites now.
The 45-70 revolver was a task, sure a million loads out there but THEY DON'T WORK IN A 10" BARREL! I had to make my own molds but it will do down to 1/2" at 100 yards and I have one group of 2-1/2" at 500 yards.
Every gun took 1000 times more thought and research then a book will ever give you.
Many new guys are in the same position, nothing to help them but they work all day, come home and eat, spend some time at the bench and go watch TV, then bed.
Now I can give answers to sticky problems with certain guns but not all. Don't ask about a nine or so. I can tell you everything about the .44 mag because I have been fooling with them since 1956 and many of you were not born yet. I have posted every single thing over and over. Then I keep reading posts to questions that are wrong.
Then all the different boolits made can not use the book loads or site loads.
Then the nut cases that made the 405 gr .44 boolit and the 700 gr .500 boolit! Rifling twist is pixie dust! Guys ask for loads but my answer is to toss the stupid boolits.
Going to other sites and reading about the 700 gr .500 boolit has a lot of followers because they think the guy is smart but my answer is he is stupid. They fade into the dust the same as the kings of the hill that think they know it all because they read it in a rag.
ME, I do the work and also trust my friends here if I need help.
Making ammo is a lifetime job and every second of thought.
My favorite saying made famous here is "There are no stupid questions" so can we continue along that course?

[jonp]

I read a long thread yesterday - something like " I'm looking for an auto pistol in .45ACP. What do you guys think? " Said to myself, this is gonna be great !! I read the whole thing and was laughing some of the way. Yes, there was a little angst and many opinions. But you know what?
If you pay attention, there's a lot to be learned here. I truly enjoyed the whole thing. Some of the old friends here have WAY more experience than me. You people are great !!
Jeez guys, it's just opinions........ Mike

I think a better question would have been "I am looking to buy my first 45ACP. I am going to use it for self defense in the home and not a carry gun plus target practice. Should I go with a standard 1911 full size or a compact or should I get a sa/da 45acp full or compact in steel or plastic? For my first gun how much should I spend for a reliable one of good quality without going overboard as I will probably upgrade if I find I use it a great deal. A price range with this in mind would be nice?"
More specific than the original question. Define what you are looking for and ask that question as specifically as possible then expand out a little

[gray wolf]

A lot has been bread out of society today, Some people still see the need for a little research and can understand the benefits derived from book knowledge. Some/many, do not and they never will, well never is perhaps the wrong word to use. If the need and desire is strong enough then perhaps some folks might resort to book reading.
I have seen with my own eyes the pain (literally ) on peoples faces when you ask them to listen to something that is being said for there own benefit. They just don't want to hear it.
What is it ? They can't absorb the information ?
they don't want to acknowledge that you know more than they do ?
They just don't care ?
They think your information is just a waste of there time.
Or maybe they just want to get from here to there in one Giant step.
I am getting to the point that I don't have time anymore to educate someone that looks at me with a blank stare on there face -- or is constantly looking at there watch as to say ""are you done yet ""
It doesn't take a genius to see when someone is opposed to receiving information that is directed to them FOR there benefit. -- especially when they get defensive about there actions.
Some of the excuses I hear are pathetic, Someone with an IQ of 12 could see through them.
Maybe it's are own underlying desire to pass on information, perhaps it makes us feel important to think we know more than other folks.
BUT, BUT, BUT, on the other hand if someone shows just a little attempt at listening in order to obtain a better understanding of what's going on, then I do not ever feel the time is wasted.
Like I always say "" when the student is ready the teacher will appear ""
It's not hard to tell when someone wants to learn, and our forum is overrun with good teachers, people who go out of there way to explain things. Not only for edification and to better the bread so to speak, but for safety.
We recently were told by someone that in there opinion a load book was not needed and the money would be better spent on something else. The person was accused of not wanting to learn. But yet a picture of a big book shelf were posted along with a nightstand piled high with books. Clearly a person like that must read,
The desire to learn should be apparent to others, It was to me.
What I got out of it was,-- I read and learn about what I consider to be important to me, I learn about what interest me, I seek knowledge about things that are required of me, ( you put in the reason )
As for other things I get what I need to get by from asking other people, If the answer serves my purpose I can live with it. Correct or incorrect I do not need to refine it or prove it right or wrong.
Discussions that involve trying to make a point with some people are a fruitless waste of time.
Needless to say I get involved in such talk all the time, Who knows maybe the information will fall on ears that are ready to hear it, I do believe there is truth in that.
We can't save the world, but perhaps we can keep a small part of it from spinning of into space.
MINI rant off

Sam

[Tucker]

I guess I'm a little confused here . . . maybe it's my age 'cause I'm and old fart . . . but I'm new to reloading. Yes . . . I have reloading manuals . . . yes . . . I've done a lot of searches on here and other threads . . . . no . . . . I don't have a smart phone nor any of that other new technology . . . I'm just a 61 year old guy who has shot BP all of my life from pistols to cannons . . . I guess you'd say I'm "new" to reloading though . . . and like many other "noobies" - which, if I'm not mistaken . . . everyone here was at one time regardless of if you've been reloading 20 or 100 years . . . and from the sounds of some of the "cranky ones" . . the 100 years may be more accurate. So . . . . for all of you that are tired of the "noobie questions" . . . instead of an elite group forum . . . why don't you just post a sticky and be explicit on what questions may be asked since some think that "any" question is a stupid one . . . then maybe all of us that are new on here can kind of get an idea of what is and what isn't allowed.

Funny thing though . . .I've purchased quite a few things here from brass to lead to reloading tools from members and sponsors . . . some of them "old timers" . . . and not one of them has turned down my "noobie" cash. Hmmm . . . is there going to be a rule against "noobies" purchasing things from other members and sponsors since so many of us seem to ask "dumb" questions? I'm sure that's probably a "dumb" question . . . just trying to get it clear in my ancient noobie mind.

Regardless of a person's age . . . and I'm sure I can learn a lot from a younger person just as I can from an older person . . . or how long they've have or haven't been reloading . . . it's called "getting along with each other". There are a lot of knowledgeable folks on here who are willing to share the things that they know and have learned . . and that's a big help to someone getting started. I have had responses to some of the questions I have asked that have been nothing less that "belittling" . . . so be it . . there are a lot of cranks out there who don't want to climb down from their pedestal. However, after reading a number of manuals . . . some of which are conflicting beyond belief . . . . I, and I'm sure many others as well, are going to have questions. I guess I'd rather ask a "dumb" question and put up with a little "belittling" so that I don't make a mistake that could possibly hurt myself or others around me.

This has been an interesting thread to read . . . I'd like to hear more but I'm a guessing there isn't a chair next to the stove for someone new? I'm not thin skinned . . . and a lot of other folks aren't either. I just think that everyone . . . regardless of how long they've been doing anything . . . ought to take time out once in a while and ponder on how it was when they got started and the welcome help and advice that they got from others. Simply put . . . if it ain't a "welcoming place" . . . it will end up being a "lonely place".

Thank You!

[45sixgun]

We recently were told by someone that in there opinion a load book was not needed and the money would be better spent on something else. The person was accused of not wanting to learn. But yet a picture of a big book shelf were posted along with a nightstand piled high with books. Clearly a person like that must read,
The desire to learn should be apparent to others, It was to me.
What I got out of it was,-- I read and learn about what I consider to be important to me, I learn about what interest me, I seek knowledge about things that are required of me, ( you put in the reason )
As for other things I get what I need to get by from asking other people, If the answer serves my purpose I can live with it. Correct or incorrect I do not need to refine it or prove it right or wrong.

Thanks for that, Sam. I feel like another person didn't join the dogpile on me. In all seriousness (and not to bring that other thread over to this one), I don't feel the need to get a load book. I've sat with a sales specialist in a gun shop and looked with him through a couple of manuals. I've browsed through them on my own at the stores. And I've read a TON of stuff on the internet. Between that and emailing people and talking to people, I felt I didn't need a manual. And still feel that way. I hope I don't invite another dogpile of vitriol for saying this again. I've been happy and successful doing it my way. Is it just "getting by"? Maybe. Does it warrant a bunch of nasty name calling and false assumptions about my intelligence and character? No! If I treated my students the way I was treated, they would hate me. And I wouldn't be a teacher for long. I was educated the old school way, at a boarding school, all the way through twelfth grade. I know what it is to study and research. I also know what we're up against with the younger generations. I think things would go smoother here if we didn't jump to conclusions so quickly, were a little more open minded, and patient and compassionate. We're dealing with a huge jump/gap in values and abilities. Why can't we have as our vision the mindset of a patient understanding teacher? Do we want these new guys to join our ranks? It's certainly in our best interest and in the best interest of the gun culture of America. Let's look at the bigger picture.

[Love Life]

Everybody just chill for a minute. At the end of the day it is all about saving money (or so we think), shooting more, being self sufficient, and having fun.

There is feuding going on, but that is natural in a group so large. Things will die down as everything settles back in. Growing pains...

[PS Paul]

If a guy can do it safely, with judgment and prudence and no harm to himself or others, by God, I can support him "doing it his way", you know? Especially if there are lots of men willing to share sound advice on forums as wonderful as this.

Just my .02 and I STILL miss Jim intensely.

[Tucker]

Everybody just chill for a minute. At the end of the day it is all about saving money (or so we think), shooting more, being self sufficient, and having fun.

There is feuding going on, but that is natural in a group so large. Things will die down as everything settles back in. Growing pains...

Love Life you are absolutely right it is all about having fun and shooting more. You said it best if more people would think like that we my not have all the feuding

[Smoke4320]

I don't know about this. Seems as if the old timers have great mutual respect for each other because each did the actual work and try to pass on knowledge.
Seems as if trouble starts at other forums and winds up here for answers that can't be accepted because so and so said this or that.
It is always based on trial and error, work at it, test everything, never, ever quote anyone.
But we have to have compassion for the new guy too. I just can't ignore them because we are responsible to steer them along the right and safe path.
Seems some are against certain questions. True a new guy needs to read and learn but there is confusion. Face it, it can be hard. The new generation can't read and understand and will also not understand what we post. Half of what the old timers say is not read or understood.
Loading can be easy but reloading is a specific thing.
We will see the same questions over and over and over. But those that ask are just in the dark.
Go to the store and give the amount at the register so your change is a bill instead of a pocket of change. they are lost. It is the sad education system we have. We are teachers that outstrip schools.
Loading is like sticking a kid at a table saw and telling him to make a cabinet first time. He can't follow the book that tells him each step. The shop teacher is there for a reason.
Remember the apprentice at a gun maker long ago. Took years before he was allowed to make his own.
We need to help and yes the old timers do get tired of repeating but this site is to steer and help.
Please don't get angry.

+100

I came here as a complete noob .. asked questions that I am sure were asked a million times (did try using the search and got no where) have and am still learning much and GREATLY appreciate all the help.
Monday I shot my first buck with a home cast bullet and it lit up my world..
all I can say it treat the noobs gentle and remember we all have to start somewhere in the learning process..
this site continues to grow BECAUSE you answer questions and guide people

[blackthorn]

45sixgun---Maybe if you had stated in the OP, how you arrived at a conclusion that you do not need a manual this thread would have taken a bit of a different direction (maybe). The danger (as I see it) is that the OP (to me) left an impression that one could/can just log on, ask all and sundry a question or two, go forth and load them up! So the danger here is that someone (rank newbie) goes on line, asks a question and gets an answer from someone who has about the same level of knowledge, loads them up based on the answer he/she got and promptly blows his/her hand, head (you pick) off! To me the OP was akin to turning one of your classes over to a brand new student who can't speak english and expecting the rest of the students to get the gist of the day's lesson. I for one did/do not see the posts following th OP to be "piling" on you, rather I see them as raising ligitimate concerns based on the fact patern available at the time. Have a nice day!

[btroj]

Everybody just chill for a minute. At the end of the day it is all about saving money (or so we think), shooting more, being self sufficient, and having fun.

There is feuding going on, but that is natural in a group so large. Things will die down as everything settles back in. Growing pains...

You save money doing this? I just shoot more for the same money. It does keep me out of the bars at night......

[mdi]

Here is the danger. Good talented people can get driven off or stop posting because of all the BS. I have seen it happen on other forums.

I wonder if a "Premium Membership" forum would work. It would have fewer sub forums - maybe none. Cost would be high enough to keep the trolls out - say $100/year. This weeds out guys who will not spend $25 for a manual. Premium members would still be able to post on the current forums but have a place where like minded people could interact.

It will also give the forum additional revenue.

I feel that I receive great value from this site only because of the few handfuls of talented people who reside here.

Don Verna

There's a forum that deals with a specific gun, made in 1911, but I won't mention it's name. They have a "site supporter forum". A private forum for site supporters only. I got an "invitation" to join a year or so ago, and IIRC, for $25.00 per month I could enjoy the privileges of the being a "supporting member". I rarely go there any more, I ain't part of the "elite". I think the same would happen if the Castboolits.com forum went "pay for privileges"; losing members, me included. I guess I'm the kinda guy that will try to get into "Members Only" places just because I ain't a member...

BTW; I haven't noticed any more "heated discussions" than normal for a site that deals with a hobby that takes a bit of time to learn.

[cbrick]

We recently were told by someone that in there opinion a load book was not needed and the money would be better spent on something else. The person was accused of not wanting to learn. But yet a picture of a big book shelf were posted along with a nightstand piled high with books. Clearly a person like that must read, Sam

I remember the thread well. Are you sure that black & white picture of all the books is his or just a pic grabbed off the internet. If I showed you a picture of the Library of Congress would that make it my library and mean that I've read all that?

Rick

[cbrick]

Everybody just chill for a minute. At the end of the day it is all about saving money

Really? No doubt for some that's true enough and actually the only thing but I can say in all honesty that I have never cast a single boolit to save money. I cast to get what I want the way I want it and to make it work the way I want and I can tell myself . . . Self, you made it with your own two hands. Anybody can buy a bullet.

Rick

[303Guy]

I for one did/do not see the posts following th OP to be "piling" on you, rather I see them as raising ligitimate concerns ...

I see it like that too. The 'complaints' were not directed at the OP but the subject the OP raised.

I'm in cbrick's camp. I like to make my own. For me it would be cheaper to simply buy loaded ammo, but where's the fun in that. (Meaning I'm not loading and shooting enough!) But that's where this forum comes in - it keeps me ticking over in the meantime.

P.S. It's 'legitimate'. I use Google Chrome for it's spell checker. Too bad it doen't catch typo's.

[Love Life]

Really? No doubt for some that's true enough and actually the only thing but I can say in all honesty that I have never cast a single boolit to save money. I cast to get what I want the way I want it and to make it work the way I want and I can tell myself . . . Self, you made it with your own two hands. Anybody can buy a bullet.

Rick

Why did you cut off my quote right where it explained what you explained?

Original statement: "Everybody just chill for a minute. At the end of the day it is all about saving money (or so we think), shooting more, being self sufficient, and having fun."