Hi All, I am looking for some advice. I picked up a clean 32 Rimfire long Stevens Favorite 1915 at an auction. The bore is not bad so I thought about converting it to 32 SW centerfire.
Has anyone here done this?
How Did it work out?
I figure Tim (goodsteel) might have some input
Thanks All
The .32 rimfire has bore and groove dimensions more like the .32 Long Colt than the S&W Long. I would slug the barrel to be sure. I've had John Taylor build several .32 S&W Long small game rifles for me which have worked well shooting standard revolver loads in ordinary .30 cal. (.308" groove diameter) with common twist of rifling from 10" to 16", all shoot well with ordinary wadcutter or factory LRN ammunition or handloads at subsonic rifle velocities with bullets up to 130 grains, such as Saeco #322 cast of soft 1:40 tin/lead alloy, with 1.8-2.0 grains of Bullseye.
The. 32 Long Colt is a tighter groove diameter, but should do fine with similar loads given bullets of proper diameter.
I have a Rem RB in 32 RF that I am planning to convert. I bought the rifle online and the bore is really poor, so I have not put a high priority on it. May just shoot round balls out of it if I convert it.
Midway USA has a short video with Larry P showing how he plugged and moved the firing pin hole when converting a RF to CF.
I done mine in 32 long with good results. Just keep pressures at 32 long RF.
I've done 2, a Rem #4 RB and Rem #6, and my Dad did several. It's just a matter of relocating the FP hole and making a new FP. I filled in the RF holes in mine. Couple things to watch for-
1- As was mentioned the nominal specs for the 32RF call for a 308 groove. But, that's not written in stone. My #4 is about .311, my #6 about .309. You want to keep that in mind.
2- SOME 32RF chambers will accept a 32 S+W or S+W Long without modification. Most won't. Most need just a couple thousandths taken out. I have seen that work done with a chucking reamer, .331 or .332 IIRC. Better would be to rent a 32 S+W Long RIFLE chamber reamer. It won't take more than a couple turns to do the job. The 32 S+W Long reamer will do the 32 S+W chamber, you just don't ream in as far. There may be the odd barrel out there that is real tight and won't accept the pilot on a reamer meant for a nominal .311 bore. I suppose calling the reamer rental place would answer that if you have you bore dimensions.
ETA- A revolver reamer might work too now that I think about it. I imagine the rifle reamer cuts the rim recess and the revolver doesn't. Have to ask the reamer guy.
3- A Favorite, a #6 and some of the other 32 RF's based on what are really 22 LR actions need to be treated kindly. A 32 S+W using an 85-115 gr boolit will pop them out at 1k+ fps with just a smidge of BE or other fast burning pistol powder and give you low pressures. If you prefer to drop the speed down into 800 fps range that's even easier on the gun and a cotton tail isn't going anywhere after you pop him with one. The 32 S+W/Long aren't in the same class as the 22 LR even at 7-800 fps. They are a lot more than a 22, you have to see it to understand. Range is the limiting factor.
The Lee Soup Can is a fine choice for the tighter barreled RF conversions IMO.
Reloading it is actually pretty easy: http://32rimfire.blogspot.com/ . I converted the cases from rimfire shot shells I picked up cheap on GB instead of .32 Colt brass. Tom at Accurate has a couple of molds, but I just use a round ball like in the link.
I used a .336 chucking reamer for the chamber. Drilled out old firing pin hole in block and either taper reamed it or stepped it from the chamber side. Made a solid plug to silver solder in, then closed the action and dropped a transfer punch down the bore to mark the block face. Figured angle for firing pin to hammer and duplicated old pin hole style. Made new firing pin and fit it, then case hardened and installed. I use the little LEE 90gr TL at about 700 to 750 FPS. Its like a big pellet gun.
Please consider using .32 Long Colt instead of reaming the chamber to fit a .32 S&W Long.
J. Harrison converts S&W Long Brass to Long Colt and sells the cases through GunBroker.com auctions.
He also casts and sells 299153 Heel Base bullets that are suitable for the Long Colt via the same auctions.
Accurate Molds catalogs some bullets suitable for the Long Colt, the 31-090A is a heeled inside lube round flat nose design that is intended for reloading the Long Colt without needing to size the case first, giving extended brass life. There are other bullet designs listed that are outside lubed if you want to go that route.
If you want to crimp the heeled bullet in, Old West Moulds will customize a Lee Collet crimp die and make an adjustable shell holder to allow setting the crimp any where from the mouth of a untrimmed case at .93" to a Colt Short of about .65".
Reloading dies, which you should try to get in Carbide and made to allow forming S&W cases for the future, have been available through Lee (Special run or order), CH-4D, Redding (Special Order), and RCBS (Special Order). I purchased a set from Hollywood Engineering in Sun valley before his shop fire and he ground the carbide sizing die out to match my chamber dimensions to minimize sizing of fired cases yet allow me to form S&W cases down to Long colt dimensions.
NOTE: If you form the S&W down, run them in all the way to the rim, then turn the rim to remove the 'roll' of displace brass between rim and body at the juncture. This occurs because the die needs either a radius or a 'funnel chamfer' to get the mouth of the S&W case to align and enter the Long Colt die for reforming.
The intent of using the Long Colt instead of the S&W cartridge is to preclude later users from trying to fire a full power S&W cartridge in the Stevens Favorite Action. Unless you do some deliberate changes to the action it is, as originally built, 'Weak' (although the 1915 version is the strongest of the "Favorite" series) and strong loads will bend the (low Carbon mild Steel) action screws and pins and a Maximum S&W load could break the breech block at the 'square corner' where the breech face meets the two parts that go to the Pivot screw (more likely with a 1886, 1889, or 1894 Early Breech Block).
Several threads exist about the modifications needed to get reliable and safe use with S&W cartridges, some even have photos of what happens to parts that are not upgraded.
On the other hand, many have been surprised with the accuracy of the old Stevens Favorite barrels even with 'rusted and pitted' as found bores, after through cleaning, as long as there is still some rifling in them to spin the bullet.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Last edited by Chev. William; 01-16-2015 at 08:04 PM. Reason: added notes on "Favorite" models.
About 20 years ago I converted my #4 to centerfire and shoot .32 Long Colt in it. I simply drilled a centerfire hole in the block, then plugged the rimfire hole.
I made a new firing pin with an offset tip to match the new hole and I was in business.
Mine shoots pretty well, close to 1" at 50 yards. Adding a Lyman 1A tang sight really helps.
Sorry, I don't have any input. I've never worked on a favorite, and honestly I really don't care to. I just don't feel they are a very safe action for shooting modern centerfire smokeless loads. (OK, go ahead and slap me)
Just seems to be a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.
I think it's a very wise decision on your part. I did just such a conversion on a 1915 Favorite a couple of years ago. Turned out to be quite an education. Wound up tightening the action in all ways, replacing screws, link and about everything else. It just seemed that burning smokeless it was running right at the peak of its safety factor. Did finally come up with several good black and Pyrodex loads that seemed to bring the acceptable pressure levels back down to where you didn't have to flinch every time you pulled the trigger.Originally Posted by goodsteel
The Favorite action is perhaps the best looking of all the boys single shot rifles but I feel it's one of the worst for strength. If one could do all the machine work themselves , have lots of patience then it is a most interesting project.
I still feel the .32 S&W conversion on a boys rifle frame has merit and will try it again as soon as I can but from lots of reading and even more looking am thinking the Number 4 Remington or even the H&A action would be a much better choice.
Soon I will pull the .32 cal barrel and replace it with a regular .22 barrel and pass the rifle on to one of my grandsons
Facta non verba
There is a World of Difference between .32 Long Colt (the same case diameters as a .32 Long RF) and a .32 S&W Long! the .32 colt is 'obsolete' like the .32 Long so it is not loaded to 'modern era' (higher) pressures while the .32 S&W Long is loaded to higher modern pressures and stresses ORIGINAL Stevens 1886, 1889, 1894 or 1915 series actions enough to cause 'loosening' of the actions due to the low strength of the steels used for the pins and screws.
My "Back of the envelope calculations" of barrel Tenon 'Hoop Stresses' and Breech Block Thrust Stresses indicate that at .32 Long RF or .32 Long Colt CF pressures they need stronger pins and screws to live long with the forces. It would take reconstruction of the Breech Block and Link, out of higher strength materials, to bring them into the range of .32 S&W Long full power loads.
For better life, with just changing the screws and pins for high strength materials, the 1894 action should be limited to .25ACP or a '.25 Stevens' CF version at up to 33,000psi mean peak pressures as a upper bound (assuming stronger Alloy steels for pivots) and more like 27,000psi for long life (such as a .17WSM rim fire use. The .17WSM round is the same case body diameter as the .25 Stevens or .27 Caliber Powder Tool Loads and could be broken down to remove bullet and powder, trimmed to about .98" case length and reloaded with a known powder and charge weight with a .25ACP bullet, or even a custom 67 grain cast lead bullet of .251" to .253" diameter and used for shooting the rifles.
Do NOT re-chamber/re-barrel 1886/1889/1894/1915 actions for 'Modern' CF cartridges as there is always the chance that some later owner will use a maximum load in such a cartridge and bend/break the actions.
Example would be a '.32 S&W Long +P' load.
A Stevens 44 or 44-1/2 action should be strong enough for .32 S&W Long if you really want a modern Cartridge in a 'period Single Shot' rifle. I think you will find the Stevens .32 Long Barrels are closer to .30 caliber dimensions than to .32 S&W dimensions.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Last edited by Chev. William; 01-16-2015 at 08:12 PM.
A .25 acp at 33K would have significantly more bolt face thrust than a .32 S&W long at 14K PSI.
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Collecting .32 molds. Please let me know if you have one you don't need, cause I might "need" it!
It's just not a good idea. Reg, I read your whole thread and was subscribed to it. Frankly, it gave me the heebe jeebies and confirmed all my suspicions about the strength of those actions.
No part of them was meant to take any sort of high pressures, and honestly, (even though they are just as cute as a button) no modern manufacturer would make them for fear of lawsuits. They just are not robust enough in any way.
I love seeing what people do with them (that's a real gem you have there REG) but there is no way in heck a conscientious gunsmith would do anything to one of those but change parts and recommend it to be consigned to a place of reverence over the fireplace.
That's my views on it, but there is a whole world of difference between what I can do and what a handy home gunsmith can do.
Just be darn careful, and know what you are getting into.
Read the thread REG did on the favorite. That's a classic example of somebody doing a dangerous thing in a safe way, and making it look darn classy in the process.
Last edited by MBTcustom; 11-04-2014 at 04:41 PM.
Precision in the wrong place is only a placebo.
Hmmm... .25ACP is listed with a pressure limit of 24,000psi.
and .32 Long Colt is listed with a pressure limit of 13,000psi.
and .32 S&W Long is listed with a pressure limit of 15,000psi.
(from Ammoguide database reportedly verified against SAMMI Standards.
European Union pressure limits may be different.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
I was just using the number for the .25 that you posited.
Using the Sammi Max pressures, the .25 ACP has nearly 50% more bolt face thrust than does the .32 long colt, and over 30% more than the .32 S&W long. Interestingly enough, both of the .32 cartridges calculate as having lower bolt face thrust than the .22 LR.
Nozombies.com Practical Zombie Survival
Collecting .32 molds. Please let me know if you have one you don't need, cause I might "need" it!
OK, I will go back and recheck my calculations.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Sorry about that SAAMI listed it at 24,000psi CUP, not the same as the .32s
CIP pressure limit is 17,405psi measured via Piezo method.
The current SAAMI limits for RF rounds are posted in Piezo psi at between 23,000psi and 27,000psi so there is some range of values to choose from.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
Last edited by Chev. William; 04-29-2014 at 02:09 PM.
Thanks all. I am going to go the rimfire case route that was posted with round balls. It should be a load of fun.
Have you taken your Stevens Favorite to the Range yet? How is It doing? I'm Curious how yours turned out.
Best Regards,
Chev. William
I want to convert my Rem #4 rolling block to 32 S&W Long but need a smith to convert the block from rimfire to centerfire. Any recommendations on a good smith to do the conversion? My local smith thought he could do it but it would probably take him a year at the speed he does work. Appreciate any contact info anyone can provide. Can pm me at shultza@watchtv.net if preferred not to give this advice on the forum. Thanks.
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