Help identify this .38 cast

[Bluestraw]

Hello all,
Been collecting the equipment and materials to start reloading. Ran into this last night and was wondering what y'all could tell me about it. Owner states he purchased a bunch from an estate sale and has no knowledge of them other than... They are .38 and that he weighed a few samples of them and they ranged from 158 to 161 grains.

My main interest is this... How would my Winchester Trapper in .357 take these? I've got the press, powder, brass for .357 and .38spl and a Lyman 45 with no dies that I hope will do the job on lubing after I figure it out.

Also, what would be a good price for say 500 shipped.

Thanks in advance!!!
Blue

[Bluestraw]

Whoops.....

[HATCH]

look like 148 grain button head wad cutters to me.
might be cast with pure lead to get the weight up that much

Not sure if your level gun will feed those.
I know some that will feed a empty case but they have had some work done to them.

[codgerville@zianet.com]

Whoops.....

They look to be the old Lyman 358432, 160 grain.

[Gohon]

They're plain old wad cutters generally used in 38 special revolvers for target shooting at slow speeds. Don't know about the Winchester but Marlins have a problem with feeding them and usually jam up the action. Unless you like to target shoot at around 25 yards and don't mind single loading them I personally wouldn't mess with them. Note there is no crimp groove as they are loaded almost flush with the nose at the case mouth.

[Janoosh]

As to loading them for a Lever action, for my Rossi I need to load them long, meaning some lube grooves are exposed, in order to insure problem free feeding. Same for a 38 special, in my gun. YMMV... I find wadcutters accurate out to 50 yds from my rifle, but unstable and inaccurate out at 100 .yds

[Char-Gar]

Those bullets would not be a good choice for your 357 Magnum rifle.

[TCFAN]

I also think they are the Lyman 358432. I have a 4 cav. mold that cast that boolit at 160 grs.It is the only wadcutter boolit that I have tried that did not shot worth a hoot in my S&W 14-6. My marlin 94-C does not like it either.It does have a crimp groove and is loaded like a SWC.........Terry

[mdi]

If you can get them to feed, then they may be ok for your rifle. Depending on the gun, and if they fit the bore, they can be super accurate to mebbe 50-75 yards, or a total disaster. But I don't think any harm will come to you or your gun...

[Echo]

Probably don't drive them hard, unles you have checked and they have a reasonable BHN (12-14). Soft lead, if driven hard will probably skid the rifling, and leading will result. Might be OK using 2400, or even 4227, for a softer push, but you won't know until you try.

[Shiloh]

Does not look like a current production mold. Gotta go with TCFAN's suggestion.

Shiloh

[codgerville@zianet.com]

I also think they are the Lyman 358432. I have a 4 cav. mold that cast that boolit at 160 grs.It is the only wadcutter boolit that I have tried that did not shot worth a hoot in my S&W 14-6. My marlin 94-C does not like it either.It does have a crimp groove and is loaded like a SWC.........Terry

You must have had the same results I had. Tried them in a S&W 38/44 Outdoorsman and a Colt Officers Model Match with several loads and got dinner plate sized groups.

[bhn22]

It is the 358432 heavy. I'm casting a run of wadcutters right now, and this is one of the molds I'm using. These are pretty stout wadcutters, and you can push them pretty hard. My old Lyman manual says to use basic 160 gr loading data. I use them at full power for bowling pins, they also work well with speedloaders, which most wadcutter designs won't do.

[paul h]

I'd make up a couple of dummies with various seating depths to see if you can get them to feed. My first try would be a 38 sp case with the bullet seated to use the middle lube groove as a canalure. Wadcutters typically provide outstanding accuracy out to at least 50 yds. My boys and I shot several hundred of those loads through a couple of 357's during a plinking foray at targets near and far and found the accuracy fully up to the task. We were getting dinner plate sized accuracy at over 100 yds with the scoped 357.

You can work up a load with most any fast pistol/shotgun powder at around +/- 4 grs and have a dandy load if you can find one that will feed.

[Dusty Bannister]

You might consider measuring the diameter of a few of those bullets with a micrometer. It appears that the bullet in the upper left has been sized on one half the casting, but is untouched on the other half. Much like the casting on the lower right appears to be untouched. Carefully measure on each side of the mold half to see if the small side is large enough to fill the groove diameter in the rifle. If it is too small, it will not work for you no matter how much you would like for it to. It would be nice if they were large enough to just clean off the old stuff, and relube in your sizer. Dusty

[steg]

I had a H&K ten cavity mold that cast something identical to that, they shot high in everything I had in 38 cal. they did the same in some of my friends weapons also. What I did was I had the mold modified to a 195 gr RFN with a 1/4 inch Meplat, it shoots great now, sorry if I went off-track.

[gwpercle]

You guy's are right ...it is the old Lyman #358432 160 grain wadcutter. That's a good bullet, at least in my two revolvers. I picked up an old 2 cavity mould, cast and sized some up for a test along with some from a Lee 148gr. wadcutter mould, some #358429 SWC boolits and some commerical 158 gr SWC by Valiant. The 160 gr wadcutters grouped best out of my model 64 S & W in 38 special. This mould also came in a 148 gr. version...with the same mould number.
I loaded mine crimped in the top crimp groove, not flush...I realy like this boolit. Dont know about rifle feeding ...just gonna have to try a few and see.
Gary

[Alan in Vermont]

Also, what would be a good price for say 500 shipped.

Unless my eyes are deceiving me those sure look like they are sized off-center or cast really goofy. In several of them I can see where they were heavily sized on one side of the parting line and not touched at all on the other. That being the case they are worth about $1.00/lb as mini-ingots.

[bangerjim]

Have about 2K or so of those I got at the scrap yard many months ago. I paid $1/pound. Dissolved off the blue dirty old grease and powder coated about 150 to play with. They are ~15bhn.

As of yet after playing with load lengths, I cannot get my Rossi levers to cycle them in a 357 or 38 case. They shoot fine in my 38 revolvers! They seat at the crimp groove and do stick out, unlike many of the WC's you find today.

banger

[MT Gianni]

If you decide that you want them explain ti the seller that they need to be cleaned and relubed which would reduce their value considerably.