Savage 10 FCM Scout 7.62x39

[Ranch Dog]

I would gladly give up weight to keep everything in neck. I passed on a mannlicher norinco (I think)bolt this past spring because the stock was rubbish. However it was 495.00 and I think in hindsight I should have bought it.Sure was a sweet unit for carrying.

I haven't a clue what these would go for. I've gotten pretty good at doing Tru-Oil finishes which doesn't involve much work or money.

---

I spent some more time on the Rossi barrel and the completed the 10FCM barrel as well. Besides the sinker, I sent a bullet through them as well. The Rossi Single Shot (R762MB) has a .302" bore with a measured .310" groove. There are constrictions in the barrel at both ends, breech and muzzle and once lapped will measure out at .311".

The 10FCM has a .300" bore and perfect .308" groove.

Both rifles have 4 groove rifling, with the grooves being twice as wide as the lands.

[Jeff H]

.....The 10FCM has a .300" bore and perfect .308" groove........

I'm watching this intently.

I have a real need for for a bullet of that weight and design to work in a .300"/.308" barrel. Nothing I have looked at so far looked all that promising and then you (my favorite bullet designer) comes along with a 125. PERFECT TIMING!

But,..... since you're not selling moulds any more, will we be able to get one made like this?

[Ranch Dog]

I'm watching this intently.

I have a real need for for a bullet of that weight and design to work in a .300"/.308" barrel. Nothing I have looked at so far looked all that promising and then you (my favorite bullet designer) comes along with a 125. PERFECT TIMING!

But,..... since you're not selling moulds any more, will we be able to get one made like this?

I played with the design a little more this afternoon before I went deer hunting. I work a bit and then ponder a bit more. I also decided I want a chamber impression from the Scout to support the the throat dimensions identified by the chamber cast.

I think our best hope is getting NOE to tackle it but I want the design settled before I do that.

[Ranch Dog]

After I came in from hunting, I went to work on my two rifles. Using lead wire I made a chamber impression from each that produced a great deal more definition than that from the Cerrosafe. I also decided to employ the "Master", our Tom Myers who has helped me with so many of my designs, just to make sure I get this right the first time. In that this is two chambers and one bullet, I would prefer another working on it as well.

Subscribe to this topic if you are interested, it might be a bit but I will be back here as I want to get both of my rifles shooting with a 7.62x39 specific bullet, a bullet that is suitable for big game hunting, as soon as possible. I will also make contact with NOE and see what the possibilities are there.

[Jeff H]

Interested and subscribed.

I want to try it in a CB-only 300 BLK.

Thanks for sharing, Michael.

[jwhite]

Michael,
Have you tried your 313-115gr at higher speeds? I have never pushed it beyond 1800fps in my Ruger but when i get home i think i will work on a 2200-2300 load to see how it does. What is the twist on your Savage?

JW

[Dr. A]

I have had no problems getting my NOE 155 gr Lee copy going 2300fps. This gun will shoot them as fast as it lets me pack in powder. If we are going with that small of a bullet, I will be really curious how fast I can get it going with accuracy and 1680. My gun does prefer the standard lube grooves, and though the Marlins have done well with the small lube grooves, I would like to buy the bigger groove mold if offered. I know Al sells more of the standard lube groove, or at least that is what it appears. I bet he gives us an option. Your molds tend to sell quickly and consistently. With Al making them, I usually don't have near as long to wait either.

I would think the bigger lube groove molds would size down better, but perhaps that amount of sizing is just not important enough.

[Ranch Dog]

Michael,
Have you tried your 313-115gr at higher speeds? I have never pushed it beyond 1800fps in my Ruger but when i get home i think i will work on a 2200-2300 load to see how it does. What is the twist on your Savage?

I haven't tried my TLC313-115-RF on top of the 7.62x39 as I don't have any loose bullets. The are all loaded on 32-20 Win cartridges which I shooting at 2100 FPS. Of my 30 caliber designs, this bullet is probably has the most potential. I have run it through QuickLoad and with my powders, H335 & H4227 have the most potential. Those powders would push it over 2500 FPS.

It is tough for me to cast during hunting season but I don't think anybody is going out today as thunderstorms are expected at sunrise through early afternoon. Might actually get a chance to cast bullets!

I have had no problems getting my NOE 155 gr Lee copy going 2300fps. This gun will shoot them as fast as it lets me pack in powder. If we are going with that small of a bullet, I will be really curious how fast I can get it going with accuracy and 1680. My gun does prefer the standard lube grooves, and though the Marlins have done well with the small lube grooves, I would like to buy the bigger groove mold if offered. I know Al sells more of the standard lube groove, or at least that is what it appears. I bet he gives us an option. Your molds tend to sell quickly and consistently. With Al making them, I usually don't have near as long to wait either.

I would think the bigger lube groove molds would size down better, but perhaps that amount of sizing is just not important enough.

I would prefer the Micro-Bands. I shoot both in the same designs and the accuracy I see is always better with the bands. With the short body dictated by the case neck, you would probably see one medium width grease grove or two short ones.

I did talk to Swede at NOE and he is interested in the bullet and doing them in both lube groove styles. In that we are using the same design software, I would give him my data and let him settle the standard groove issues. It looks like he is willing to list it in his store for direct orders. After running the four Lee group buys that I have this year, I will not run any more through any manufacturer.

Once Tom looks at my chamber impressions, I will continue on the with the design.

[Dr. A]

That's what I figured. Thanks so much!

[Ranch Dog]

I was able to cast a bunch of my 32-20 Win bullets, the TLC313-115-RF, so I should have them checked, lubed, and sized within the week. This morning I ran it through the TMT Chamber software and this is what it looked like.



With a perfect fit, the software suggested a 1.880" overall length. Here is what it looks in real life, the case has been trimmed with a Lee Case Length Gauge/Trimmer.



The bullet is gently touching the lands in both rifles. This little puppy should work. I cast with a Lyman #2 clone with some bird shot added and water quench at the drop. They typically settle in at 19 to 21 BHN. I will put the wood to them next week.

Today, I shot the Remington Premium 125-grain PSP ammo that I had been given through the Scout. This rifle is very accurate.

[Ranch Dog]

I updated the terminal performance charts to include my TLC313-115-RF bullet.

[NYBushBro]

Shameless bump...

[Dthunter]

I took a Ruger Hawk eye, compact in 7.62x39, and made a few easy changes.

I relaced the shortened magazine well with a 308 winchester one i had kicking around.
Put in a .308 win magazine follower and spring.

Now I can seat my 311299's and 311644's to the rifling and have the base of the boolet near perfect in the bottom of the neck.

I have been shooting varget. It shoots pretty good! About 1-1/4" at 100. The loaded rounds feed fairly well from the magazine. But I can only put 3 rounds in the magazine and get good feeding.

Its a fun rifle! My Next step with this rifle is to rebarrel it with a 1:12" Shilen, match select palma taper barrel. Maybe part it off at 20" or 18". A nice short bull barreled carbine. I can hardly Wait!

[seabreeze133]

Wonder if there is a Mauser action/rifle that could be readily rebarreled to 7.62x39?

seabreeze

[Artful]

Mini Mauser's were/are imported ready to go - you can convert a larger one but have to fool with bolt head/extractor - more work and makes a heavier gun.
- unless you like fooling with stuff get a commercial model

CZ
http://www.hinterlandoutfitters.com/...h-p-23477.html


Ruger M77 Mk2


ZASTAVA M85, 7.62X39 BOLT ACTION aka "MINI MAUSER" was also imported by Interarms Viscount or Whitworth Mini Mark X, Remington 799 and others.
http://centerfiresystems.com/ri1975-n.aspx
http://www.impactguns.com/zastava-m8...-ri1975-n.aspx
[img][/img]

[kens]

I rebarrelled a small ring 98 in 7.62x39. It was a booger to get it to feed. The extractor does extract ok. I used a sks follower, a m1 carbine mag spring, and a filler block in the mag well.
It shoots very nice though.
I posted a few loads in another topic on this site.

[Ranch Dog]

Now to the latest on my 10 FCM. It is on the way back to Savage for a review. The accuracy potential of the rifle isn't there no matter how or what I do which includes the use of 7 different brands of ammo. It has not been able to remain within my 2.5 MOA requirement on a consistent basis so I have stopped hunting with it. The chamber impression tells the truth and that is that the chamber is over spec and the barrel under. To help you visualize, it is like you are shooting a bullet into the horn end of a trumpet. This might be Savage's attempt to use the shorter cartridge in a 308 Win action and barrel. In any case, the rifle (my rifle?) is not built to the SAAMI 7.62x39 spec. There would be no way to design a cast bullet for this rifle, it would be physically impossible.

I contacted Savage Customer Service this week and they decided to have me send the rifle back to be review. They wanted the CAD drawings from my chamber impression which I included as part of my notes about the rifle. Now, it is just a wait to see what they do to correct the issue and that might take a while with the holidays. If this is how they build a 7.62x39, the rifle will be immediately put on the rack of my FLL. I hope this is not the case as I like the concept and quality of the rifle. Still, it haunts me that this might be how Savage decided to make this model in this cartridge. If this is the case, I will go to the Zastava M85 Mini Mauser in the change out.

It is kind of bad when the Rossi Single Shot, which cost a quarter of the price, is shooting groups with the same ammo which are exactly a quarter of the size of the Savage. You would expect it to be the other way around. The only thing that needs to be cured on the Rossi is the light strikes on the CCI primers which will be dealt with as soon as hunting season is finished.

I've actually been shooting my TLC313-115-RF with great success from the Rossi in that it has SAAMI cut barrel and chamber, it fits like a glove. As I noted in the closing sentence of the above paragraph, I'm experiencing light hammer strikes against the CCI primer with that rifle. I have gotten around that problem when solving another issue that was looking for an answer! I was given a huge amount of Wolf ammo but I did not what to shoot the steel core stuff through my barrels... just a personal preference. I pulled the bullets and tossed them along with the powder and then reloaded the cases with my powders and the TLC313. Works like a charm and the Rossi has no issues with the primers on the Wolf cases!

Just waiting to hear what Savage has to say.

[Dr. A]

CZ only goes by the CIP spec chamber, and has good luck with that. I believe they as a gun (527's) used to have light strikes on primers as well. That has not been a problem with recent guns as far as I've seen. Mine has been the easiest to shoot cast of any gun I've had. Sorry to hear about your troubles!

[Bullshop Junior]

Now to the latest on my 10 FCM. It is on the way back to Savage for a review. The accuracy potential of the rifle isn't there no matter how or what I do which includes the use of 7 different brands of ammo. It has not been able to remain within my 2.5 MOA requirement on a consistent basis so I have stopped hunting with it. The chamber impression tells the truth and that is that the chamber is over spec and the barrel under. To help you visualize, it is like you are shooting a bullet into the horn end of a trumpet. This might be Savage's attempt to use the shorter cartridge in a 308 Win action and barrel. In any case, the rifle (my rifle?) is not built to the SAAMI 7.62x39 spec. There would be no way to design a cast bullet for this rifle, it would be physically impossible.

I contacted Savage Customer Service this week and they decided to have me send the rifle back to be review. They wanted the CAD drawings from my chamber impression which I included as part of my notes about the rifle. Now, it is just a wait to see what they do to correct the issue and that might take a while with the holidays. If this is how they build a 7.62x39, the rifle will be immediately put on the rack of my FLL. I hope this is not the case as I like the concept and quality of the rifle. Still, it haunts me that this might be how Savage decided to make this model in this cartridge. If this is the case, I will go to the Zastava M85 Mini Mauser in the change out.

It is kind of bad when the Rossi Single Shot, which cost a quarter of the price, is shooting groups with the same ammo which are exactly a quarter of the size of the Savage. You would expect it to be the other way around. The only thing that needs to be cured on the Rossi is the light strikes on the CCI primers which will be dealt with as soon as hunting season is finished.

I've actually been shooting my TLC313-115-RF with great success from the Rossi in that it has SAAMI cut barrel and chamber, it fits like a glove. As I noted in the closing sentence of the above paragraph, I'm experiencing light hammer strikes against the CCI primer with that rifle. I have gotten around that problem when solving another issue that was looking for an answer! I was given a huge amount of Wolf ammo but I did not what to shoot the steel core stuff through my barrels... just a personal preference. I pulled the bullets and tossed them along with the powder and then reloaded the cases with my powders and the TLC313. Works like a charm and the Rossi has no issues with the primers on the Wolf cases!

Just waiting to hear what Savage has to say.

All the savages, I have ever had were extreamly accurate, but I can standup to their chambers being off sometimes. I had a brand new 7mm/08 that would not chamber factory ammo. The neck was so tight that if i fire formed 243 cases, I would still have to turn the necks to get leaded ammo to chamber, and then the case neck was so thin, they cracked first or second shot. Only thing was, since it was so tight, with a short throat, it shot amazing and thats what I cared about.

Knowing savage, considering I have had more savage rifles then anything else put together, if there is something wrong, they will fix it. When i fianlly did send back the 7/08 they even rebarreled it to 22/250 for me and didn't charge me.

[Ranch Dog]

Thanks for the replies guys...

I had considered the CZ but don't care for the extended magazine. Of course, that is just a personal thing on my part as I think it would be a great alternative.

I'm reserving my judgement to give Savage the chance to correct the situation to my satisfaction. If they come back with "that's the way we make it", I will try to get them to rechamber it to 300 Savage at no expense. I had originally contacted their custom gun shop about that work in this rifle and they said "can and would like to do" for $288. I'm not going to put any more into the rifle but would take that as an alternative. Not interested in a 308 Win in return as they can be had for about $200 less than the 7.62x39 chambering in the 10 FCM.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why Mossberg, Savage, Remington, Ruger, and Winchester have not offered this cartridge in their base models. I think it would be an immediate hit. Instead, those that offer it have done so in their premium priced models and it has had limited success.