Bore wear?

[Goatwhiskers]

Just read on another forum a gentleman's remark that he used to shoot "lubed, cross patched" boolits in slug guns years ago, and that tho while accurate, caused bore wear. Don't know what a slug gun is, may not matter, but I don't see where PP should cause excessive wear, maybe over a lifetime? Any thoughts, comments? GW

[Old Coot]

Goatwhiskersw; A slug gun is a high quality muzzleloader for match shooting. They are heavy (around 18 to 20 lbs.), and have a false muzzle for loading. I imagine that the old ones with their softer steels could show some wear with paper patched bullets, but not modern (since 1890) rifles . Jacket material is a lot harder than paper, and rifles take an awful lot of rounds before the bore gets "shot out"" . Yes, paper will "polish" a bore leading some fools to claim that it will cause bore wear. If you go to an amusement park that sees a lot of visitors the wooden and steel railings leading to the attractions will have been "polished " by the hands of thousands and thousands 9maybe millions) of attendants waiting to go on the rides. No one claims that human flesh will cause excessive wear to steel or wood. Brodie

[Kragman71]

Hello,
For what It's worth. A member of our Club, A Colonel stationed at West Point, an a hellava good
shot with his 45 cal single shot, antique riflel and jacketed bullets.
He was ready to argue that no softer metal can erode steel without a third element involved.
I declined to get involved; but doesn't aluminum rods degrade gunbarrels?
I dunno
Frank

[country gent]

For extreme finishes in the tool room a speed lathe and paper toweling was used it would get the "surface" called for on the print. Paper is abrasive and will polish but metal removal is minute. It takes alot of rubbing to make a dark spot on paper. My recovered patches show powder fouling but no sighns of metal. Dirty paper is another issue to keep in mind also. Paper will impregnate with grit acting as a lap.
That impregnating is what makes aluminum and brass cleaning rods degrade a barrel. The carbon fouling impregnates onto the surface and acts as a lapping compound.

[longbow]

There is lots of information on this site about whether paper patching wears barrels excessively or not. A search will turn up lots of threads on this subject.

Paper fiber itself is not abrasive but white opaque paper is because it has clay and other solid fillers in in that are abrasive. However, I think the general feeling is that the wear is so slow as to be negligible.

Don't forget that full charges of burning powder erode barrels and that is more significant than some paper wear.

Also, that slug gun would have been a BP gun so the chances of loading and shooting enough paper patched slugs to wear it out would be unlikely in my opinion. More likely improper/inadequate cleaning would result in bore deterioration. Again, my opinion only.

Maybe this will help:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...4782-Paper-101

Longbow

[pdawg_shooter]

People have told me for years that I am wearing out my barrels with paper. They say it is just like cutting paper with a knife will dull a knife. I tell them to sharpen a knife, and cut a couple hundred sheets of paper. See how dull the knife is...or isn't. Now resharpen the same blade and see how many jacketed bullets you can cut in two. Lubed paper is way easier on barrels than jacketed bullets. How many barrels have you shot the rifling out of using jacketed bullets. My 06 has in excess of 8000 paper patched bullets and the rifling look great.

[edwin41]

my swedisch mauser seems to like the patched bullets , and the bore is getting real shiny.
i for one would never shoot another bullet through this rifle again.

[pdawg_shooter]

Real hard to beat a paper patched bullet in a rifle...INHO.

[Crusty Deary Ol'Coot]

Interesting topic!! Thanks.

Crusty Deary Ol'Coot

[EDG]

Some of Pope's rifles were shot more than 30,000 rounds. I suspect that many paper patches would abrade the bore a bit.

[Gtek]

The world is flat, you can't do that, that will never work. I am officially at the point of I do not have the time nor the patience to try and change their minds. Having just stepped into this discipline as of late, I am pretty sure the bore will last longer than the throat or me. Gtek

[Wayne Smith]

I recommend Ned Robert's The Muzzle Loading Slug Gun - it's a good read and full introduction to these rifles.

[Harter66]

Sheesh , I read slug gun and registered rifled shotgun not long range/target ML.

the Army did testing and established bbl life to be 30 seconds or just about 10,000 rounds. Established w/M2 ball in probably an 03'. I believe it was an American Rifleman artical. Stands to my reasoning (flawed at best) that lower pressures slower (cooler ?) powders should result in longer bbl life.

I site a recent expirement of my own.
The rifle is a 41' Terni Carcano 6.5 re-bbl'd to 7mm RWH (7x6.8 Rem SPCII necked up .004)
The loads;
Rem case,CCI std lrg rifle, 22.0 RL 10x.

120gr 7mm Serria flat base SP RCBS 27-130 FP 2x Green bar as cast (132gr)
2" 3 shots 1.75" 5 shots
av vel 2230 av vel 2250

This was not finished work-up and the build was brand new total count 8 JPJs 300 PP's . What I was after was to see what a known safe load for both weights would yield for compairson in future work-ups I never expected a heavier boolit to go faster w/all other factors the same.
I would think load for load even w/higher velocities achieved that throat erosion would be reduced along w/ bbl' wear. I guess to prove it out you'd have to have 3 as nearly identical as possible rifles and fire several thousand rounds in each at matching pressures in 1 patch gun and velocities in the other patch gun using a jacketed single lot sourced load in the 3rd.

[classicballistx]

Pdawg,

Do you have a favorite 140 - 155gr bullet for shooting patched in a .30? Mine are .30US, 7.5 Swiss, 7.62N, and .30-06. I'm looking for something with a bit less recoil than 190's and I'm lazy and cheap - so I'm asking the smartest guy in the room before spending money and time. Besides, everything else you've taught me works like you said.

Edo
CBX

My 06 has in excess of 8000 paper patched bullets and the rifling look great.

[pdawg_shooter]

311414

[hardy]

Hi,all I,ve got a question re.patching not about wear but pressure.In short,how much oversize is acceptable using the "rule of thumb"of.002"
above groove dia. I,ve got a Berthier slugged at .315"/.327"I,ve made a dummy round that chambers OK It,s a boolit sized full length at.315" and patched up to .337"to fit the fired/unsized case neck.Reason? No dies.no cash.Is .008"/.010" oversize way too much in your valued collective opinion?I,ve read about P.O. Ackley (I think) firing oversize bullets in small cals.i.e..30 cal ln .270"to no detriment but what do you guys think?Thanks in advance..Mike

[pdawg_shooter]

Nope, as long as you start low and work up. The paper will compress easily. If it chambers ok you are good to go.

[hardy]

Thanks pdawg,I usually patch 2 or 3 thou.over with good results but I bow to your experience.I,ll use a lanyard as usual but don,t
want to end up with a French paperweight! Cheers,Mike

[pdawg_shooter]

Pick a powder slow enough to give you 100%+ load density. Helps accuracy by limiting distortion of the bullet under acceleration.

[Char-Gar]

Worrying about paper patches (cleaning or shooting) wearing the bore excessively, is "Much ado about nothing". But some folks just like to worry instead of shoot.