Deer Loads

[KCSO]

I just came back form the range where I was sighting in my classic deer rifle, a model 8 in 35 Remington. My load is a 212 gr. RN GC at 1970 fps and this load will group under 3" at 100 yards from the old M8. Expansion at 100 yards into water jugs is on the order of 13/16" with 90% weigh retention. I consider this a more than adaquate deer and Black Bear load. This compares favorably with my 220 FPGC load for the Krag. In actual tests the Remington factory 200 gr jacketed slug goes just under 2000 fps from the same rifle and offeres no better expansion or weight retention, but most of the local shooters seem to think that the cast load is lacking something. I sure don't see how or why? I can't help but think that anyone who needs anythng more to drop a deer out to 125 yards is a P!$$ poor hunter. An uncle of mine claimed that the 32-40 was a super deer gun (32 bullet 165 grains at 1500fps).

I think the differenc is that i was trained to only shoot at a vital spot on an animal and never to shoot unless I could hit that vital spot. Years of 22 short and head shots on squirrels insured that the patience to wait for the shot was developed. The bottom line for me is that it matters little what caliber you shoot or how fast the bullet goes, it's where you put the bullet that counts. So this year again i will head to the fields with an antiquated gun (circa 1913) and an anemic load to drop the deer that got away from a nimrod with a 359 Remchester super short manglum.

Good Luck to all the cast bulet hunters!

[Thumbcocker]

Yeah; but those bigger guns with two pounds of scope on them kill deer a lot "deader" than an old lead bullet. Besides everybody knows that the more stuff you hang on a rifle and the harder it kicks the less you have to practice. The rifle does it all for you.

I bet you waste time finding where the deer live and eat even before the season opens. Some guys are so old fashioned

[waksupi]

Pretty similar to what I killed a buck last weekend at 200 yards with. Let the naysayers enjoy thier selves. We shall remain smug.

[Ricochet]

You know, as a teenager I used to go hunting with an old man who carried a Gewehr 88, loaded with Remington 170 grain factory loads. I thought that old man just didn't get it and was hopelessly outmoded. Now I've got a G88 just like his and would feel perfectly comfortable using it with my own cast loads in the same class as .35 Remington factory loads. (I had to pay more for my G88 than he did.) Guess I don't get it anymore and am now hopelessly outmoded. I've got a bunch of other old veteran milsurps, all of which are fine woods rifles.

On the other hand, I love my scoped .300 Weatherby Magnum Vanguard, and a couple of similar rifles better suited for the open plains out West. I've carried them when I knew they were handicapping me, just to take them out and put them to use.

[felix]

'Bout like knocking off a blackbird with a 44, a squirrel with an '06, a noisy blue jay with a 300 savage, all three with full power loads; the first with a 240 grainer boolit, the other two with 150 grainer condoms, all snap shot at 50 feet into a tree after sundown. Never shot a deer in my life, so gave up the hunting challenge. All this back in the 50's. Haven't went on any kind of meet hunt since... felix

[oneokie]

Couldn't resist.

most of the local shooters seem to think that the cast load is lacking something.

A condom, maybe??

[GrizzLeeBear]

Inside 150 yds. that load in the 35 Rem. should kill em dead just fine.

Had a kind of funny experience today at the range. A couple of guys were setting up at the bench next to me and I asked if they wanted to take a target down to 100 yds. "No, we're just going to shoot at 50. Where we hunt you can't see much farther than that." they said. OK, I'm expecting them to pull out a shotgun to shoot slugs or other suitable short range thumper. So, what the 1st guy to shoot pull out of the case. A scoped Encore in .300 Win. Mag. with a muzzle brake! Great short range gun LOL, but it wasn't much fun to shoot next to.

[FWAddit]

The Hornady 200-gr. .35 caliber round-nose is an excellent bullet. In my experience, the 200-gr. .35 caliber RCBS flatnose is just as good.

Except, of course, in the ease of developing loads. It took me a lot of tinkering to get the right alloy so the bullet was hard enough to shoot straight and also soft enough to expand the way KCSO describes. (What I settled on turned out to have a BHN of 15--just like Lyman #2). But, as everyone here already knows, the tinkering makes up some of the best parts of the whole process. Why should we let bullet company engineers have all the fun?

[Larry Gibson]

Got to agree that the RCBS 35-200-FN is as good as current jacketed bullets in the .35 Rem. I cast mine of 3-5% atimony shot and WQ out of the mould. I can drive the first 10 out of a clean barrel right at 2200 fps and maintain 2 1/2 MOA with the aperture rear sight on the rebarreled M91 Mauser. After 10 rounds the groups open as the barrel begins to wash a little with lead. It cleans out during normal cleaning at 10 shots though. Expansion is as good as the Hornady bullet. However, based on the experience of an old friend who was partial to his M54 in 35 Remington using the 200 gr Winchester Silver Tips I managed to find a box with 47 of them a couple years ago at a gunshow. Several rounds of old Winchester PPs ran 2159 fps out of the 26" barreled M91. I loaded the STs (didn't do a lot of "load developement" as 47 bullets won't go far) over 38 and 40 gr of 4895. The 40 gr load ran right at 2400 fps Might be a tudge warm for lever actions and the M8). A friend used that load two years ago to kill a nice black tail buck. Took one shot at about 90 paces and my friend said the deer went down as if struck by lightlning. I've 35 of those ST bullets left and will use them for a hunt one of these days but frankly the RCBS 200 gr cast bullet at 2200 fps meets my needs just fine. However, if there's any 200 gr STs floating around out there no one wants........

Larry Gibson

[Bret4207]

Kind of like finding a couple boxes of 190 gr Silver Tips for the 303 Savage, doesn't happen often.

[trickyasafox]

judge those guys all you want but i love them! who else gives us such nice once fired brass!

[yeahbub]

The bottom line for me is that it matters little what caliber you shoot or how fast the bullet goes, it's where you put the bullet that counts. So this year again i will head to the fields with an antiquated gun (circa 1913) and an anemic load to drop the deer that got away from a nimrod with a 359 Remchester super short manglum.

LOL!!! You got it, KCSO. After 3 months of fine-tuning a long distance load for an '06 some years back, I blew out the off-side shoulder on a fair buck at 50 yards and ruined 5 lbs of meat. It was about then that I caught on to the note of hysteria in the various gun rags concerning the need for nuclear block-buster power in your .999 MAGNUM with a bullet that opens like a parachute to bring down a deer. All that went out the window as I happily went to a .44 cal. 200gr+ cast FN at 1200fps put in the right place. I've never had one go farther than 50 yds or so, as long as I put it where it was supposed to go. Cookie-cutter holes in and out and no bone-chip burger for the coyotes. Been a cast boolit fan ever since - never mind the quizzical looks by other competitors at high-power matches when I show up with an 1909 Arg. and full velocity cast loads.

[Larry Gibson]

Kind of like finding a couple boxes of 190 gr Silver Tips for the 303 Savage, doesn't happen often.

I just happened to find a full box of them also! I could say, "eat your heart out" but I won't. Very good J bullets at in regular cartridges at standard velocity. Too bad Winchester discontinued them.

Larry Gibson