Some WW1 Imperial German weaponry

[gew98]

Attachment 81202
My German Imperial WW1 rifles.

Frank

I love gew88's as well. All my beauties have matching bolts and are not turked with. and they can shoot !.

[gew98]

I like my gew98's for sure.

[gew98]

Yeah..old teutonic steel....

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I would hope someone with a username of "gew98" would enjoy his GEWs!

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Yeah..old teutonic steel....

Wow, a unique variation. Those are anti-aircraft sights, correct? There's a Gew 98 with night sights coming up in the next RIA premium auction, too.

[Multigunner]

Some unusual variations of the 98A-98AZ type rifles on this site.http://www.collectiblefirearms.com/RiflesMauser.html
Example from halfway down the page.

DESCRIPTION: Unusual German Kar. 98AZ style carbine in 6.9 x 57 mm caliber! The carbine has a very short, 17.25 inch barrel (rather than 23.2 inch long barrel found on K98AZ). The overall length of the carbine is only 37.25 inch (compare to 43 inch overall length of K98AZ). The lower part of the barrel (under the stock) displays following marking: "Crown over B, Crown over U, Crown over G, 6.9 mm 57, 4/27, Crown Stm G, N 11gr". Based on the markings, the carbine was built (or converted) in April 1927.

How many of those are in your collection?
Are these mentioned in the book you recommended?
Similar 88 actioned carbine
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j...51773540,d.dmg

Never seen the 6.9mm designation before, (perhaps a variation of the 7mm?). I've read of a 5.9 mm cartridge the Germans experimented with for awhile.
China experimented with a 6.8 (.270) Mauser cartridge pre WW2.
The Polish .22 RF trainer would be a real catch.
While looking for any signs of a Serbian 98A I did find that at least one otherwise unknown Serbian Mauser carbine is in a collection, with no sign of it having been a standard issue. That example is built on a 1910 action.

The 98A type rifles with scrubbed receiver rings may have caused some problems in re-barreling, and safety issues if they went too deep and cut through the carburized layer.
I've read of a Norwegian reworked K98 arsenal re-barreled to .30-06 letting go because the original NAZI marking had been roughly ground away cutting through the hardened layer.
Grinding away any of the surface of the thinner 98A receiver ring could cause problems.

[frnkeore]

6.9 (.2717) is the unrifled bore diameter. Germany proof tested barrels before rifling.

If you add .15mm deep rifling (a std depth) to the bore you get a groove of 7.2mm or .2835

Frank

[Multigunner]

6.9 (.2717) is the unrifled bore diameter. Germany proof tested barrels before rifling.

If you add .15mm deep rifling (a std depth) to the bore you get a groove of 7.2mm or .2835

Frank

Thanks for clearing that up for me Frank.
I suppose that's why the 8mm was later changed to 7.92.
The Chinese 6.8 I mentioned threw me a bit. The 5.6 (I've seen these designated as 5.9 for some reason, possibly a misprint)Experimental was a .22 caliber along the lines of the .22-250, an early attempt at a shooter friendly small bore Infantry rifle, about as effective as the modern 5.56 NATO. There's a similar sporting 5.6X57.
So the 6.9X57 Carbine on that site would be a 7mm Mauser chambering. Serbia used the 7mm early on.
Since Spain ended up with some 98A type rifles there may have been a commercial attempt to unload surplus 98a rifles to Latin countries by re-barreling to 7mm.
I seem to remember a reference to some Serbian rifles having been assembled from surplus parts by small companies.
Early in their independence Serbian troops didn't even have military issue shoes and socks, they had to bring their own, so its likely they used quite a hodge podge of weapons.

[gew98]

Thank you for the online museum tour.
I guess those are some of the weapons my Grandpa had shooting at him when he was in the 78th Lightning Division.

I feel ya !. My grandfather served in the AEF and did not come home until mid 1919 due to being in hospital with shrapnel wounds to the chest. He always talked with acrimony how all his possessions to include his brownie camera dissappeared...but he did realize being dragged from the mud to save his life was worth the loss of such things.

[KCSO]

I got a dandy 1889 Non com sword that would go good with that group. Thats a real nice collection.

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Here's a side-by-side of a Gew 98 and a Kar 98, showing the length difference:

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And here's a Mauser Oberndorf Peruvian Contract Modelo 1909. Not quite "Imperial German" in issue, but definitely German through-and-through in the beautiful level of craftsmanship in these contract Mauser rifles.

[John Allen]

I would love to have a broomhandle. I am always looking for one.

[baker1425]

How's the luger shoot? Is there much difference in fit and finish for the arty model?

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Artillery Luger shoots pretty well for a nearly 100 year old handgun!

[Multigunner]

Artillery Luger shoots pretty well for a nearly 100 year old handgun!

Ever chrono the arty Luger to see what velocity you get with various standard 9X19 rounds?

I've read that in the old days most cartridge companies chrono'ed pistol ammo (even revolver ammo)in single shot bolt action test guns with 10" barrels so I guess the velocity from an 8" barrel was about the same as the published velocity in catalogs, perhaps a hair less.

I have a partial box of very old Remington 9mm Luger cartridges that have the case cannelure that resists bullet push back. I hear some cartridge companies are beginning to bring back that feature.

[IridiumRed]

Those sights shown above are fascinating. I see that it was asked if they were anti aircraft sights, and I didn't see a reply on that, so forgive me if I am asking a question that has already been answered

But, looking at those sights.... I wonder if they are for training ???

The reason I ask is that it looks like the front and rear BOTH have the same offset. I don't know if they can be moved to the other side (so that they both hang off the left side of the rifle), but as they are positioned now, it looks like a right handed person could lay behind the rifle, align the sights on the target, and someone could look over their shoulder, or next to their head, and see the same sight picture as the person behind the rifle. Hence, why I wonder if they are for training??

I've never seen that sort of setup before, but I've seen other designs which would accomplish the same thing (sometimes using mirrors)

Just curious!! That's a fascinating setup, and I'm guessing quite rare(?)! The reason I thought they weren't anti aircraft is that both the front and rear is offset, and they're only offset on one side.... so if you were trying to lead a plane, it would mostly be in one direction of lead....

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Ever chrono the arty Luger to see what velocity you get with various standard 9X19 rounds?

I've read that in the old days most cartridge companies chrono'ed pistol ammo (even revolver ammo)in single shot bolt action test guns with 10" barrels so I guess the velocity from an 8" barrel was about the same as the published velocity in catalogs, perhaps a hair less.

I have a partial box of very old Remington 9mm Luger cartridges that have the case cannelure that resists bullet push back. I hear some cartridge companies are beginning to bring back that feature.

Unfortunately not, I haven't had the opportunity to chrono 9mm loads out of the 200mm barrel that the Artillery Luger sports.