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Thread: Automated Master Caster

  1. #41
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    HATCH's Avatar
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    You really need to cast some first so you get the hang of it.
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  2. #42
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    Would be cool to get a touch screen display to adjust programming.
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  3. #43
    Boolit Buddy hagel's Avatar
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    Sure wish I could. No can do though. Part of the deal with OU is that I give them a machine ASAP. This project is a big deal to the senior ME students. So I have to turn it over to them now. Remember though, I'm going to get two more machines. Well, at least I might get two more. I pulled the first one out of the box Friday evening and looked it over. Looks like a fine little machine. Thing is though, I think I can double the production rate on it without adding any electro gizmos at all. Need to get the lathe and mill in and running first though.

  4. #44
    Boolit Buddy hagel's Avatar
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    I don't know about a touch screen display. I was just hoping to be able to get the thing plugged into a laptop. In any case I do agree that it would be slick to have a display of some kind that made interfacing with the machine easier. I made a big deal of that when I had the first meeting with the students. This damn disease I've got is liable to lock me up in the garage at any time. That alone will be hard enough. I sure don't want to be stuck there with a bunch of machines that are hard to get along with.

    I'll bring up the idea of the touch screen this Wednesday when I meet with them again.

    Say Hatch, is that PLC code still available for $50? If so I'll ask the students if they want a copy of it as a starting point. All of them are pretty computer savvy though so they might have already figured it out. BUt if they think it will help them do a better job I'll be happy to get it for them.

  5. #45
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    Yeah donation to 45nut

  6. #46
    Boolit Buddy hagel's Avatar
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    Well Hatch after two weeks of looking very hard at all the alternative possibilities my group of five ME students came to the conclusion that you have it pretty well worked out. That means PLC and air. They are looking at what I think is a pretty innovative control idea though. Their idea is centered around controlling the speed of the machine based on the temperature of the mold at the bottom of the stroke. It will be interesting to see how that plays out.

    The physical configuration of the machine may turn out a little different. Do you know if anybody has repositioned the handle on the shaft roughly 1/2 of the total distance it travels in the stroke (that would require repositioning the stop block for the handle as well) and using the cylinder in a vertical configuration to actuate the machine by pulling on the lever instead of mounting it behind the machine in a horizontal configuration like yours? I would like to have it set up that way to reduce the overall size of the machine since I am going to end up with a lot of equipment in my shop.

  7. #47
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    No_1 made a new handle that is hooked to his cylinder.
    You can make a replacement handle and have the cylinder be vertical on the bottom of the machine. But if you do this then you loose manual control.

    You aren't saving that much space and imho would be stupid to remove the manual feature.
    Do you plan to dedicate a machine to only running one mold?
    If you are wanting to add features them add a level sensor to the lead pot. Write the code to detect when the lead got low and shut the machine off. wire in a pid contact to the plc to start when the lead got.hot enough.
    Also use a second limit switch at the bottom of the stoke.

    Originally the design was for two limit switches but I made it work with just one.
    If you ran two switches you could do more with the programming.
    Example...
    On the return stroke if top switch didn't close in 30ms after air was turned off then run the 'mold clear' program which basically would turn the air back on to run the mold to the bottom again. This would free up any stuck boolits. Have it have a cycle count the limited it to two attempts to clear before shutting down machine.

    I got more ideas but right now i am riding in a car doing 85 mph, the wife is driving and its 10:40 at night.
    Needless to say its like being on the worst ride at Disney... Scared ****less
    Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
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  8. #48
    Boolit Buddy hagel's Avatar
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    I have a real hard time riding in the car when my wife is driving.

    Lead level sensor - yep, that is a real good idea. We talked about it last week. One of the students checked the melting point of brass and confirmed it to be way higher than lead. THe idea is to have it set up so it will trip a switch at some minimum height and sound an alarm so I can feed it some more lead. It could also shut the machine down.

    That two limit switch idea sounds like a real winner to me. It could solve the stuck bullet problem simpler than any way I can think of.

    As far as the vertical cylinder goes I have an idea that might make that important. Attaching the cylinder to the original handle is a pretty dumb idea though. If you look at your machine you'll see that it requires a much shorter throw cylinder to run it than you would need if you were using the lever that you would normally pull by hand. I finally figured that one out by watching your machine again.

  9. #49
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    For a home setup I understand automating a master caster. But for commercial operation doesn't it make more sense to pickup the proper equipment? The equipment that has been designed for the duty cycle and designed with the lead pre heat etc. the commercial casting machines are a continues forward operation. Where they just increment forward without a violent change in direction, IMO they shouldn't where out as soon and already do what you need.
    Last edited by kayak1; 09-30-2013 at 12:43 PM.

  10. #50
    Boolit Buddy RoGrrr's Avatar
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    kayak1
    I've been watching this thread from the beginning and have been wondering how his MC is going to hold up running commercially. Yes, some on here are running with the air cylinder but they seem to beat the crep out of themselves at the ends of the strokes in both directions. I'd install some sort of a shock absorber/dashpot to soften that. But what do I know ? ? ?
    I have a BULLET MASTER that was built in the 70s and it is still running bcuz nothing on it beats anything else on it.
    I'd like to see hagel's machine when he gets it running and since he's just a few miles down the road from where I live maybe he will invite me to see it and chat about it. I'd been toying with the idea of casting some as a side business but not sure if fighting the red tape is worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by kayak1 View Post
    For a home setup I understand automating a master caster. But for commercial operation doesn't it make more sense tipi pickup the proper equipment? The equipment that has been designed for the duty cycle and designed with the lead pre heat etc. the commercial casting machines are a continues forward operation. Where they just increment forward with out a violent change in direction, IMO they shouldn't where out as soon and already do what you need.
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  11. #51
    Boolit Buddy hagel's Avatar
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    I was kinda hoping you might think that. Exactly where are you located anyway?

    Now as for the MC beating itself to death, well I'm more than a little concerned about that myself. Still, Hatch's machine has a few miles on it. How about it Hatch, has your machine beat anything apart yet?

  12. #52
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    Please don't get me wrong, I would love one. I would also love to watch one of them run for a few hours. I just wonder how they will do in a production shop.

    I would think that once you have 8 molds running (at once) the cost has to be more then the cost of a single Mark 7.

  13. #53
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    I have had to replace the return spring because lead got on it but that was my fault. I was too lazy to install a shield.

    Nothing has broken yet and to my knowledge there are around 10 of these setups running.
    My bro robert machine has over 100k boolits cast on it and still looks new. Wyman cast 1500 a week and has for over a year.
    Yes i know a commercial caster would do 15k a day per caliber but i know Carolina cast boolits doesnt do that many per day well not every day.

    The problem with a commercial machine is you need 8 molds per caliber. Thats 75 each.
    You can get magmas sorter but it only works if your boolit weights are about the same.

    I guess i have about 30k cast on my machine.
    My setup runs exactly how it would run manually. Same amount of force.

    If i were to go into business casting, i would do the obsolete calibers, well maybe hard to get. Like 32/20, 38/40, 44/40, and other cowboy action calibers. Yes there useless demand but also there is less competition too.

    And sorry if i made mistakes typing bury i am on my phone and 1/2 asleep.
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  14. #54
    Boolit Buddy hagel's Avatar
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    Well depending on where you are maybe next summer you can come and watch mine run. By then I plan on having three MCs and a Star luber sizer automated. I also hope there turns out to be enough demand to force me to buy one of the commercial machines. Only time will tell on that one.

  15. #55
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    I am working on a nose down collator of the star if it works out I will share the setup. After that I will look at the star automation. I would love to see how you automate it.

    I currently have two master caster molds, I just need to find a used master caster that needs some tlc.

  16. #56
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    I already automated my star but i use tubes to feed it
    Don't like being hammered by the Cast Boolits Staff, then don't be a nail.
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  17. #57
    Boolit Buddy hagel's Avatar
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    I figured you probably had. Obviously I need to do the same. I don't know when I will get mine in. I need to tile the upstairs of the garage, run a lot more electricity to the garage, run water over there and install sprinklers before I can really get going on the machinery. Checking the Honeydo list I see that I need to finish painting the house, replace the walkstones with a concrete sidewalk and finish converting the septic tank aeration system from the Jet 700LL to one of these bubbler systems. Might throw a car port in there too but I'm kinda hoping to skate a little while on that one.

    No rest for the wicked.

    Hey, I'm getting a small mill from HF. Really just a glorified short shaft drill press with a two axis slotted milling table. I'm also getting an 8"rotary indexing table with a tail-stock to go with it. Anybody on here ever make their own bullet collimator?

  18. #58
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    I am using an Arduino for my Star Lubber automation. It has a 4 line by 20 Character display which will show Temp and count. The sizing cycle is driven by a 640 in/oz Nema 34 stepper motor geared down. I will likely be adding a low lube sensor and some other jam detection sensors. Its mostly completed, but I have been holding out for some sort of collator to feed it. ( I'll post picks once I dig it out, I'm in Colorado and have major water damage issues, walls ripped open, ceilings ripped open - Insulation everywhere it seems.)

    As for your lead level sensor in the pot - it is not needed. This is simple math. since your fill time will be consistent you should be able to weigh the 2 bullets + the spru and know how many cycles it will take to drop the level in the pot to a given percentage (the lowest level you can go before adding metal will freeze the pot) - a simple cycle counter in count down mode can trip an add metal alarm.

    Want to be really smart - have the counter trigger a conveyor to drop in 1lb ingots every X# of cycles.

    Now all these additions require tweaking the cycle parameters - which is why for the pot I'd say an Arduino is not good. You need something that makes it easy to load a run profile for the mold your using. On my star lubber that is not an issue - the only thing that changes is the lube temp depending on what lube I am using and while the arduino is measuring the temp - it does not control the temp.

    This is kinda why I brought up LinuxCNC - Infinite flexability - and your "cnc" program can be the settings for each mold. Since your not trying to tap holes or cut circles LinuxCNC will run fine on any dumpster grade throw away PC and use the parallel port for control outputs.

  19. #59
    Boolit Buddy hagel's Avatar
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    First off: really sorry to hear that you got slammed in that storm. The Rockies are really pretty. Back when I was driving semi I used to make sure I got a load heading to Denver this time of year just so I could see them in the fall. Really nice to look at but a damn tough place to live. My heart really goes out to you.

    Second: Mark, the lead ME student on the team that is working with me on automating the MC, is definitely going to want to pick your brain. He is really determined to use an arduino to run something.

    Best of luck on your recovery efforts. Seriously, if I didn't live so damn far away I'd give you a day of my time. We're pretty lucky living here in the hills of SE Ohio. We do get our share of storms that take out to power and occasionally flood a few roads for a day or two but we don't get squat compared to the hammering you guys get. Drop me a line when you either get it all straightened back out or if you just need to take a break from it all.

  20. #60
    Boolit Buddy hagel's Avatar
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    Hatch, you are one really creative guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by HATCH View Post
    I already automated my star but i use tubes to feed it

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