Anyone shooting a 375 Whelen or a 375-338 ?

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Going to buy one or the other.. 375 Whelen has always been tugging at my heart. But the 375-338 offers a much larger cartridge case so thus lots of space for slower powders to bump a boolit down the barrel.
So any input you have jab those keys. Thanks !
Mike in Peru

[fouronesix]

No experience with either. But, given the issues of the 35 Whelen with shoulder setback/headspace control (which by the way has been beaten to death- where some people believe it and some choose not to), I'd really take a close look at that potential problem with the 375 Whelen. If the 35 has that issue or potential then surely the 375 has a greater potential. The issue with the 375 Whelen has been reported and written about since it came out.... but some choose not to believe it. Some even like the idea of the 400 Whelen .

So, for a high horsepower 375 wildcat I'd go with the 375-338 or 375-458 or whatever one decides to call them or even the 375 Whelen AI. Or go retro with a 375 HH if an appropriate action is available.

[waksupi]

The big boiler rooms means way overbore for cast boolits, if that is your end game. For that matter, many of them are over bore for jacketed bullets, too.

[mikeym1a]

Granted that I haven't shoot my .35 Whelen all that much, but what do you mean, 'set back' and 'headspace problems'? Mine was set up properly by a talented gunsmith, and I'm careful with my reloading, so there should not be either of those problems. And I haven't had them. So what do you mean?

[fouronesix]

Headspace control in a rimless case can be looked at in this way... the firing pin hits the primer, the primer detonates and tries to back out of the pocket, the case is shoved forward and over-runs the shallow, small shoulder (shoulder set back), the main powder ignites and pressurizes, the front part of the body and neck are pushed tightly against the chamber walls, the pressure increases and shoves the case head back against the bolt face and reseats the primer, the bullet leaves the muzzle, the case has been stretched just forward of the web/head. No pressure signs, nothing seems unusual. The out of sight out of mind phenomenon.

Starting with say a whole series of cartridges based on the 30-06 parent case and without changing the shallow 17.5' shoulder- the headspace control IS the shoulder. Arbitrarily, using the 25-06 as the base line, the 30-06 has a little less shoulder thus more stretching, the 8mm-06 has a little less shoulder thus more stretching, the 338-06 has a little less shoulder thus more stretching, the 35 Whelen a little less shoulder thus more stretching, the 375 Whelen a little less shoulder thus more stretching, the 400 Whelen a little less shoulder thus more stretching. Also, there is no such thing as zero headspace. All gun/cartridges have it- some more than others and how much is acceptable (within safe limits) varies upon individual tastes. Actually shooters who don't reload usually don't pay any attention to excess headspace or excessive case stretching as long as the thing goes bang and there's no head separation.

The AI version's slightly increased body diameter at the shoulder plus sharper shoulder angle greatly reduce the effect. That and the larger-than-30cal bullets are the advantages of the AI versions of the '06 wildcats.... not the small increase in case capacity that many have used to compare the AIs to the '06 or it's wildcats.

There, it's beaten while dead again.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
First I am not looking to launch 270 grainers at warp speed. I have a couple gallon jugs of 860 and 867 I thought would be well used under a 375 projectile that was hanging on a piece of brass with enough capacity to use some of this powder to good effect .
Have seen three possibilities out there . One the 375 H&H that some here write is a good cast boolit cartrige but generally in expensive actions especially Mauser types which I am rather fond of. I see the 375-338 is a slightly lesser capacity so why should it not also work. The plus is there is a Mauser for sale with a Douglas barrel for an attractive price with dies and brass. The 375 Whelen is even less capacity so again.. why not. I understand the "headspace" issues but how many of those are due to badly mismatched dies to chambers ? The 375 Ruger is also out there although I have not read much about it and cast.
I also am thinking about a paper patched slug to use on some unsuspecting piggie or largish furry creature. So hunting up some ideas and all are appreciated. There are aspects of every endevor I have never contemplated.
Mike in Peru

[Nobade]

I have a 378X338 mag, (375 Taylor) that I have been shooting quite a bit for the last few years. Duplexed loads of 860 will fire a 285gr. boolit (paper patched 9.3mm boolits) in the neighborhood of 2200 fps, and a case full of WW760 will do 2500 fps. It is quite a nice rifle to shoot, recoil isn't bad for the power generated in an 8 lb. rifle.

That said, if I wanted a magnum again I would do a 375 H&H because the cases are a lot less hassle to make, dies way more available, and if you want to sell it it would be a lot easier.

The 375X30-06 will generate 95% of the performance of the magnum, brass is cheaper, magazine holds more rounds, uses less powder, and kicks less. But dies are pricy and the whole resale thing comes up again.

I would say they all work, just depends on what flavor you want. Nice rifles to live with no matter which one you choose.

-Nobade

[MattOrgan]

Missionary5155,

Interesting, I'm on my second .338/06, the first I was talked out of by a friend, I'll keep my second. The shoulder "set back" issue is really a non issue in actual practice, like loading and shooting it. I've only had shoulder set back issues in two instances and that was shooting very light loads (2-4 grains of Bullseye) with light cast bullets and round balls in .308 and .30/06 rifles, this only after many reloadings. In "normal"cast bullet loads and jacketed loads there is no issue because the pressure from the burning powder is sufficient to negate the effect of the primer detonation pushing the case forward. I've never had an issue with the .35 Whelen either but my experience with it is very limited. Both the 338/06 and the .35 Whelan are wonderful game cartridges and cast bullet rounds. Properly set up I think the .375 Whelen would be a great cartridge, kinda midway between the .38-55 and .375 H&H both great rifles for cast. Especially in a nice lightweight rifle. I would be torn between the standard and the Ackley Improved only because I like the looks of the improved case. I suspect the reloading dies are probably about the same cost so I might go with the sexier look. But not for any belief I'd get any better ballistic performance or any other advantage. Let us know which way you go, I'd like to know how this works out.

[fouronesix]

Missionary5155,

In "normal"cast bullet loads and jacketed loads there is no issue because the pressure from the burning powder is sufficient to negate the effect of the primer detonation pushing the case forward. I've never had an issue with the .35 Whelen either but my experience with it is very limited. Both the 338/06 and the .35 Whelan are wonderful game cartridges and cast bullet rounds.

There is a chain of events. The time between the firing pin striking the primer and the bullet exiting the muzzle and pressure going to zero is very short, but not instantaneous. Likely the case is pushed forward with the heavy loads, the same with the light loads, but as the pressure increases past a certain point with the heavier loads it simply pushes the head back against the bolt face, stretches the case and re-seats the primer. The "evidence" of set back is easily visible with the light loads because the pressure isn't great enough to stretch the case rearward so the primer stays popped out. The "evidence" is not easily visible with the heavier loads because the case stretches, the head is forced rearward against the bolt face and the primer re-seated. All cases that headspace on the shoulder show the same effects- depending on design. It's all a matter of degree and what's acceptable to the reloader/shooter.

IMO, Of the cartridges/guns I've messed with, where headspace is held the closest to zero during the entire firing cycle, are the very ruggedly built single shots using rimmed cartridges. And, where the breech block to case head fit is tight when the round is chambered and the breech block is in full battery.

[lmcollins]

If you want a bigger bore I think that the 375/338 (375 Taylor) would have the advantage. It has a belt, and if things are done at all close to correctheadspace wise there would be NO shoulder setback.

I don't think that cases would be that hard to form either. Take a standard 338 case and lube the neck inside good, run it over any 35 caliber sizer, and then over the 338/375 sizing die. You might anneal the case necks after the later. I'll wager that dies are on the shelf at Huntingtons or CH4D as we speak.

This might be the cheapest big 375 caliber available. In factory rifles the 375 Ruger has replaced it, but for someone who wants to shoot some cast bullets it is probably the cheapest and easiest to make and shoot. I would immagine that 375 Ruger cases will be expensive for a time to come. Remember the 338 Win, and the 7mm Rem Mag are all the same case with the neck opened up. You'll never run out of cases, and either of these can be expanded.

Remember: the 375 H&H takes a long action. The other rounds we discussed work in a standard 30-06 length action. For the 338/375 you just need a magnum bolt face, or the bolt face opened up and the extractor if it is a mauser.

[FLINTNFIRE]

I think I have seen the items you are looking at , both look nice , did you see the 358 winchester in the semi auto? , I have not shot my 375 whelen yet , no mold for that caliber and waiting on a stock.
Both look like a nice rifles , the mauser does come with the dies, though the 06 brass for the 375 appealed to me , I also have those slower 50 caliber powders that I plan on using .

[missionary5155]

Howdy FLINTNFIRE
That would be them... I have about another year to go down here so there is no rush on what I do.. But there sits two candidates that would take care of all my deisres to enjoy a caliber .375 in a sturdy bolt rifle.
Saw the caliber .358 also.. Just have little interest in auto loaders past the military types.
Mike in Peru

[FLINTNFIRE]

That mauser in 375-338 does look like a good candidate for what you want , whats your supply of brass like ? I have quite a bit of 30-06 and the 1903 with pitted bore , so I had a donor rifle to have done , I have a 30-338 that I had bought from a friend who had cancer , so any 338 brass went there and so did my 264 brass , on the plus side the mauser looks quite nice comes with dies .
I have a second 1903 I bought from a cousin that has been neglected , so another donor rifle to build on, I am looking for a worn bore 308 to have a 358 built on , but I to was not as interested in the semi auto.
Best wishes on your year to come .

[Stephen Cohen]

I own and shoot a 375 Whelen AI. The only problem I had was loosing head space, and this was solved by sending dies back and having them made to correct specs. I use 30/06 brass and form them by cream of wheat method, I then load with a stiff powder charge and hard cast bullet adjusted to touch lands, this now gives me well formed cases. When I resize I don not size the whole neck I leave about 40 thou unsized so as not to push shoulder back. Correct chamber and die fit is the secret. In my view it is the perfect cartridge for this county and it a real deer and pig slayer.

[Euan]

I to have a 9.5x57 (375/8mm mauser) Ackley, that I made up on a VZ33 small ring Mauser 98. And have had no problems whatsoever with head space issue's. It would have fired 4000 plus rounds with it. With both cast and the other sort. Pay attention to the sizing and you won't have any problems. I had a 375 Ackley Whelen 20 years ago on a Ruger No1, and had no headspace worries with that either. Both these cartridges preform extremly well with Cast Boolits on our Deer, Pigs etc here in New Zealand. I will try and put up a pic of the 9.5x57 Ackley Cartridge. It is loaded with a CBE 376/300gc of air cooled WW, which has preformed very well on game Down Under.
Cheers Euan

[honus]

When I had my shop in Alaska (left in 86), I built several 375/338s. It was probably the most popular wildcat I built. I still have one built on a M77 and my brother has one I built in a Long Action SAKO. I built several on the M77 because M77s in 7mm mag were cheap and plentiful in those days in Alaska. The cartridge loves WW760 or H414 and the Hornady 270 grain spitzer was hard to beat on Brown Bears.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Thank you everyone for your imput. At present I am leaning towards a 375-338 rifle. Will let you know haw it progresses. From what I have read here and research into loading options the 375-338 will do more than I would ever need and easily do what I am looking for. THANKS !
MIke in Peru

[Any Cal.]

I have a 375 Ruger. It works fine, and fits in standard long action. Just like loading a big '06. In any case, I wish it had less case capacity, as I don't run it all out anyway, so it just burns powder for nothing.

If I was doing it again I would do the 375/338 for more power or the 375 whelen if shooting mostly cast, as it had a bit less powder capacity.

The .375 is a nice size for paper patching.

[missionary5155]

Good afternoon
Thank you everyone for your kind and very helpful imput ! It was a tough decision between two fine cartriges but I was in a no loose situation as caliber 38 rifles have a long history with me starting with a Marlin Ballard in 38 Long.
So today after some very helpful imput from members here I ordered the 375 Whelen that JES Reboring had up for sale. It is a Springfield Action with a 22 inch barrel rifled out to caliber .375.
The real tilt in this direction was all the kind advice that the 375 Whelen was a good cast caliber capable of moving 250-300 grainers to as fast as cast boolits basicly can go. Paper Patch naturally have other parameters that I can now indulge in.
If anyone is interested in a nice looking 375-338 with a 25 inch Douglas Air gauge barrel on a Mauser action let me know and I can steer you that way. I have no irons in the sale of that "Bear Smasher".
Again Thank you everyone ! Just another reason why I still hang aroungd our Cast Boolits home range.
Mike in Peru

[GabbyM]

If you get back to Illinois and don't have any boolits for that beast.
Give me a shout. I've the Saeco plain base tapered 225 grain #638 and Lyman #375449.

Could drive up to your local range. Never been there but looks like about an hour and a half . It's an hour down to Effingham for me to go shoot. So it's a wash.

At the moment I have a quarter mile groomed grass fence row sans fence with eight foot corn on both sides for a tunnel effect. I should enter a postal match lol. Oh yes and a golf cart.

BTW Mike. My daughter has a brother in law working down in Peru as a doctor. Some type of scholarship deal where his med school was paid for in return for service. Never ask the details but imagine it's a missionary type scholarship. Not one paid for by the Peruvians. Whatever the case I think it's working out all around.