Powder Coating 101 - Electrostatic Method

[robertbank]

Chuck I really don't have much interest in chasing down the road of how abrasive the product is or isn't. What does concern me a little and I mean a little is having folks report their results does not address the issue. Has there been any real testing to determine if the powder, once applied is or is not abrasive. I have not noticed anything untoward in my gun barrels but that doesn't mean the product is not abrasive, it just means I have not noticed any ill affects. What I have noticed is there is less smoke. My barrels are no more cleaner or dirtier than when I used lube....just less smoke.

Take Care

Bob
ps I just came back from the US with 4lbs of Harbour Freight paint (Red & BlacK) and intend to paint bullets over the winter.

[bangerjim]

Jim I have to say your reply is about as condescending as anyone would or could write. The member asked a question and you come down like he insulted your family tree. First just because 1 thousand shooters shoot one bullet down a barrel that doesn't mean a thousand bullets have been shot down a barrel and satisfied some test. In short one experience a thousand times is not a thousand experiences. Has anyone done an abrasive test on either the Hi Tek or Powder Coating bullets? From your reply I would assume not. That is his question. If you know the answer pass it on.

I prefer powder coating but have come to realize, using the alloy I have I am going to have to GC my high pressure 9MM and 40cal bullets if I am going to use powder coating. No offense but I get leading when using unchecked bullets in my 9MM. If I can source some antimony at a reasonable price I may make up a batch of harder lead but right now it is cheaper to go with lube bullets.

Take Care

Bob

OMG......talk about thin skinned! All I did was express my opinion. Not condescending at all. Just pointing out historical facts.

If that is the worst thing you have read on here, you sure do not read much on here.

He did not take it that way. He expressed concerns and I stated, to date, no one has proven there is any damage. And anyone that does not know what our powders are made of have not read the MSDS sheets for content. I know what is in there and have no problems with those components.

The only test ANYONE (that I have ever seen) as ever done is the one I came up with a couple years ago by spinning a matte boolit between your thumb and 1st finger. If there is white on the boolit nose, that IS your skin.....and there IS some abrasion going on you may worry about. If you tend to worry.


That's all..........end of story.............

[robertbank]

'Jim if I roll or rub a piece of steel over my fingers it won;t take skin off my hand BUT if I shoot bullets made of the same steel my barrel is going to take a beating.

I rather suspect there is nothing of concern BUT that doesn't mean much. The powder paint we use was never intended to be applied as a bullet coating and I would think it might be something someone with credentials might want to verify. Way above my pay grade and level of expertise. I am sure there are folks on here who have the background to comment. To bad Felix Robbins has passed. I suspect he would know.

Bob

[Spector]

I'll just stick to clear PC from Smoke. I love all the pretty pics of colored boolits, but when I see this question of abrasion raised over and over again I'm left to wonder why those with concerns simply don't use clear PC and be done with the issue. Banger loves his colored boolits and has no problem with them. I've shot HF red with no apparent problem, but clear should not cause a problem either and Smoke's clear PC gives great one coat coverage even for a fumble fingered dummy like me. Now if someone just wants to prove a point then continue, but for anyone who just has some concern then clear PC is a simple solution to what may or may not be a problem. I'm interested in discussions, not so much interest in arguments. I would say this has been discussed at length and discussions are a search for truth.....Mike

[Metroxfi]

OMG......talk about thin skinned! All I did was express my opinion. Not condescending at all. Just pointing out historical facts.

If that is the worst thing you have read on here, you sure do not read much on here.

He did not take it that way. He expressed concerns and I stated, to date, no one has proven there is any damage. And anyone that does not know what our powders are made of have not read the MSDS sheets for content. I know what is in there and have no problems with those components.

The only test ANYONE (that I have ever seen) as ever done is the one I came up with a couple years ago by spinning a matte boolit between your thumb and 1st finger. If there is white on the boolit nose, that IS your skin.....and there IS some abrasion going on you may worry about. If you tend to worry.


That's all..........end of story.............

Actually yes, I did 'take it that way' and you are correct that is the 'end of story' for you have turned me off to the whole idea. Thanks for saving me from wasting anymore of my time.

[Metroxfi]

I'll just stick to clear PC from Smoke. I love all the pretty pics of colored boolits, but when I see this question of abrasion raised over and over again I'm left to wonder why those with concerns simply don't use clear PC and be done with the issue. Banger loves his colored boolits and has no problem with them. I've shot HF red with no apparent problem, but clear should not cause a problem either and Smoke's clear PC gives great one coat coverage even for a fumble fingered dummy like me. Now if someone just wants to prove a point then continue, but for anyone who just has some concern then clear PC is a simple solution to what may or may not be a problem. I'm interested in discussions, not so much interest in arguments. I would say this has been discussed at length and discussions are a search for truth.....Mike

Thats a great solution with the clear, also great solution in terms of discussing instead of arguing. Thanks for an all around awesome reply Mike!

[robertbank]

Thanks Mike I may give the clear a try. I have at present about 9lbs of powder to consume alone with a couple of lbs of Hi-Tek. The latter will be used in my 38spl and 45 Colt loads. Works great in those two applications with my alloy.

Take Care

Bob

[Gohon]

The only test ANYONE (that I have ever seen) as ever done is the one I came up with a couple years ago by spinning a matte boolit between your thumb and 1st finger. If there is white on the boolit nose, that IS your skin.....and there IS some abrasion going on you may worry about.

To quote someone else "now that's funny....I don't care who you are". I once purchased some Tubbs final finish bullets to fire lap a barrel. I could spin that stuff between my thumb and first finger and it didn't take any skin off but it sure polished the inside of that steel barrel.

Metroxfi, thanks for the information. Don't think it will deter my powder coating but it is good information to be made aware of.

[Metroxfi]

Gohon, I'm glad it doesn't deter you from using powder coating, it was never my intent to do so. There definitely seems to be something to it, I just like to be over cautious and look at things from all angles. I would hate for it to turn out that it is all a snake-oil pitch with horrible end results, you know? One of those "if it seems too good to be true" kind of things, so I wanted to dissect the situation and take a look at everything. I did look into titanium dioxide a bit, on the MOHS hardness scale it registers 5.5-6.5 depending on its form. For comparison, pumice is 6.0 and Quartz is 7.0. Again any substance in a pigment would be very fine but they use titanium dioxide along with clays in a lot of papers, ask the paper patch guys that use unnatural paper how brightly polished their barrels are. I think clear would be a very safe option as would most blues and some bright shades of reds and yellows it just depends on what's all in there, it's not the resin that makes me wonder, it's the pigments.

Another thing to think about is how long a barrel would last shooting exclusively jacketed bullets through it. In a high power rifle some say 1,500 rounds for a benchrest rifle, about 5,000 for a hunting rifle before 'acceptable accuracy is lost'. Obviously the number depends on so many things but I'm just trying to make a quick point: how hard is the gilding metal used in jackets? It's what, 90-95% copper and 5-10% zinc? The zinc does make it a touch harder but adds some 'slickness'. What I'm trying to say is: if jackets made of a softer metal will wear a barrel that quick, what will a harder substance do? I wonder if anyone makes a molybdenum disulfide powder coat

Again, I don't want to discourage anyone from starting or continuing to powder coat bullets. Much like anything, if it's worth doing then it's worth doing right (and safely). If you ain't asking questions then you ain't learning.

[grumman581]

The problem with using clear is that there are a couple of indoor ranges out there that do not allow you to shoot plain lead bullets and a clear coating would make them think that was what you were doing. Then you would have to try to explain the difference between plain and clear powder coat. I suspect you would be less noticed if you had a colored powder coat, possibly a copper colored one to be on the safe side.

[Oreo]

I think I did see a molybdenum disulfide powder coat at one point. Can't remember where.

[bangerjim]

I think I did see a molybdenum disulfide powder coat at one point. Can't remember where.

Moly and graphite will kill the tiny static charge built up in the bowl. I tired it several times! Had to buy new coolwhip because the moly/graphite impregnated the plastic totally and ruined it for BBDT.

Anti-stat is why many gun powder makers put it in their mix.....to reduce static cling in bottles and loading equipment.

banger

[robertbank]

Popper pics would be appreciated.

Bob

[BulletFactory]

Seconded on the pics please popper.

[Electric88]

I've got the HF unit... is the Caswell really worth upgrading to? I've never played with it

[bangerjim]

I've got the HF unit... is the Caswell really worth upgrading to? I've never played with it

There is another thread on here where Beagle has just bought a Caswell gun and will be using it....if it ever quits raining where he lives!

Follow his results on there. Also LOTS of good.....really good.... pictures of his new ES gun.

banger

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Caswell-PC-gun

[Electric88]

There is another thread on here where Beagle has just bought a Caswell gun and will be using it....if it ever quits raining where he lives!

Follow his results on there. Also LOTS of good.....really good.... pictures of his new ES gun.

banger

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...Caswell-PC-gun

Will do Banger, thanks! I'll follow, and when my HF unit finally fails maybe I'll upgrade lol

[Beagle333]

I don't think it's going to be a fantastic amount of difference. Vhoward has one and he has pretty much went back to ASBBDT as I understand it.
I'm just hoping it makes a better coat with fewer passes required and gets down on the driving bands better without having to coat the nose too heavy to get that accomplished.

[BulletFactory]

Thanks for posting the link banger.

[bangerjim]

Sorry Beagle! Now yer gonna have ta belly up to the bar!!!!!!! "The whole world's watching!"

Post those results. Inquiring minds must know.

My HF and Amazon guns are working OK now, but I am always looking for something better. And here in the dry SW desert, BBDT works very well..............most of the time.

banger