3/8" 100 yard 5 shot group?

[Rangefinder]

Yes your right in what you say but the point others have been trying to make is if you have 2 shooters of the same standard then the one with the superior equipment is going to win.

There are still a few competitions where equipment isn't going to decide the outcome but they are few and far between, anything where perfect scores are shot or smallest group wins will usually end up being an equipment race.

Which is why I am bowing out of the discussion. Take note on the rest of my post. THIS discussion is on something other than the style of shooting I do--a "clean" environment, if you will. It's like comparing an Olympic fencing line to a 17th century rapier fight (I do that too). It's simply a league I don't cross into, and vice-verse. I work from the dirt and do it on the move--not someplace most of this crowd wants to pack around $10K worth of rifle+equipment. Seeing the point yet? NOW, I'm stepping out of this.

[enfieldphile]

Big difference from the club shoots and the National shoots. These are attended by folks from all over the Nation with many foreign countries represented also.

Also they go by NRA Small Bore Metric rules.

We play by their rules too!

W/ all due respect, there is ZERO difference between Club shoots and National shoots. The wind (the 3 or 4 constantly changing conditions between 0 & 50 yards) could care less who sponsors a match! the wind is also no respecter of the fact that the best custom action with 6 O'Clock firing pin, a, 2oz Jewel trigger, Lilja barrel installed and lapped by Bill Calfee w/ a March scope all lovinly nestled in a McMillon stock. The Wind really should lay down for that, but it just has no respect for the best parts and artisans, inconvenient that.

They had a big National shoot in Midland some years back. Those shooters from the East and Midwest were sitting there going, "Ung, ung, ung...when does the wind stop? .22 Benchrest cannot be shot in these conditions!"

The W. Texas shooters just kinda snickered.

In another life, I lived back East (I'm retired Military), when I got here, I learned, either one learns to shoot in the wind, only one stays home!

The wind is your friend in W. Texas!

HOWEVER, your point is well taken, to a point. Conditions can be the big equalizer though

[jcwit]

What I was bringing out was at a club shoot you are competing against the best in the area, at the National you are competing against the best in the Nation and some of the best in the world. Some are Olympic shooters. Its the best of the best.

Years ago I was a competitor in black powder matches. Placed in the top 3 places at the club shoots most every month. After a few years I decided to try the Nationals at Friendship. Shot one of the best targets I ever shot. Went to turn it in and there were 50 plus targets with a 50 5X posted for a shoot off after the matches were over. But I sure had a good time.

[John Taylor]

I installed a Lilja barrel on a high dollar rifle a while back. It was sent to Lilja for testing and they say it shot a group that was .4" at 100 meters. I don't know what ammo they used.

[Changeling]

Bull ****! It could have been a WILD fluke, but I still say BS.

To many people take stories like this to heart, when in reality, it's just that, a good story. If you take the time to try as many brands as you can afford (From a good rest) you will find there are a few and maybe one that will produce awesome acuracy. If so buy the heck out of that brand/type because you have found what your gun wants, NOT YOU!

Example: I have a 10/22 that is highly modified. The best groups this rifle has ever shot is with the cheap Remington .22 amo, go figure!

PS. I hate Remington Amo (.22). However some of it is very hard, that's where I think the accuracy is coming from!

[felix]

No kind of gun, having zero electronics on or off-board, can out-shoot the shooter. Period! A better gun allows a shooter to shoot CLOSER to his ability, and only that.
... felix

[Changeling]

[QUOTE=Doc Highwall;2327906]Yes it is possible for 5 shots at 100 yards with good ammo that a gun has been tuned for along with a shooter that knows what their doing.[/QUOTE

As I said in my posting, try reading, BS!

[codgerville@zianet.com]

No kind of gun, having zero electronics on or off-board, can out-shoot the shooter. Period! A better gun allows a shooter to shoot CLOSER to his ability, and only that.
... felix

Felix, you are absolutely right about that! Lots of guys say their rifle "didn't do to well today", when it was THEM who didn't do too well.

[Artful]

Anymore that seems to be me most days now.

[jcwit]

Bull ****! It could have been a WILD fluke, but I still say BS.

To many people take stories like this to heart, when in reality, it's just that, a good story. If you take the time to try as many brands as you can afford (From a good rest) you will find there are a few and maybe one that will produce awesome acuracy. If so buy the heck out of that brand/type because you have found what your gun wants, NOT YOU!

Example: I have a 10/22 that is highly modified. The best groups this rifle has ever shot is with the cheap Remington .22 amo, go figure!

PS. I hate Remington Amo (.22). However some of it is very hard, that's where I think the accuracy is coming from!

Have yet to see anyone using a 10/22, no matter how its modified, at a serious target match.

Wonder where your modified 10/22 would place at an ARA match?
Or even at a club benchrest match?
Or at the NRA National Smallbore matches?

[jcwit]

No kind of gun, having zero electronics on or off-board, can out-shoot the shooter. Period! A better gun allows a shooter to shoot CLOSER to his ability, and only that.
... felix

True, but also even the best match shooter out there is not going to place in a serious benchrest match with a Mossberg Plinkster rifle.

[enfieldphile]

Agreed!

I have never seen it. Some of these reworked 10/22's; about the only thing that's still Ruger is the receiver & bolt.

They cannot run w/ a factory 40X or 52 that's been tuned to ammo and trigger adjusted.

Have yet to see anyone using a 10/22, no matter how its modified, at a serious target match.

Wonder where your modified 10/22 would place at an ARA match?
Or even at a club benchrest match?
Or at the NRA National Smallbore matches?

[jcwit]

My Remington 540XR, Winchester 52B, Harrington & Richardson M12, Kimber G82, Schultz & Larson Md. 70, can not keep up at the local Benchrest matches, against the custom made rifles being used. This is even when using target Lupua at $160.00 a brick. Plus using a SEB rest.

Is it all me? No! I still shoot 5 shot groups under 1 caliber center to center, but the custom rifles have put me out of contendtion, and I refuse to spend 3 to 5 thousand for a rifle just to have the satisfaction of placing first. No ill feelings to those that do, more power to them and I wish them the best, I'm just not going to do it.

Wish I'd have paid more attention to how the fellow shot last summer with the $10,000/$12,000 Swiss .22 rimfire rifle.

Missed the "can not" in the 1st sentence.