451 volunteer rifle

[milcol]

I recently picked up a .451 PH volunteer rifle,it came with a lyman mold 457121av,is this the correct mold or should I get the 451114 mold.
Thanks

[DIRT Farmer]

I do not have my mould chart with me but can tell you that the rifle takes a 451 in grease grove. Paper patch the Volenteer takes a swadged core 001 larger than the Pedersoli Gibbs, at least mine does. I have had decent (hunting)groups with the Lyman 439-186 patched with printer paper.

[Nobade]

I am jealous! I have been looking for one of those rifles for years. Yes, the .451" mould is the right one if you want to shoot grease groove boolits.

-Nobade

[451whitworth]

either will work. I use the 457121 & 451114 in my PH Volunteer sized to .450" along with a few other styles. Does your rifle have Rigby or Henry rifling?

[milcol]

It has the Henry rifling.

[heelerau]

Gents I to have just picked up a Parker Hale .451 Volunteer, I had a quick look the other day as it will be at the dealers for a few more weeks whilst the paperwork goes through and I can finally pick it up. I thought on quick examination it had Henry Rifling, but may not, may be of the late 70's manufacture. The mould it comes with is a lyman 457-621, this bullet has a very long ogive, and 3 grease grooves. No other gear like swages comes with it. My mate who has given me this rifle used 73 grs of FFg goex, and an alloy bullet of may be 16 to one lead to tin. I will start with this load and see what paper patched bullets are available.
Cheers
Heelerau

[Tatume]

Congratulations on acquiring an excellent target and hunting rifle. Mine is my favorite muzzle loading rifle.

Lyman 451114 is the correct mold for the Parker-Hale Enfield Volunteer. They can be hand lubed and loaded without sizing, which is how I prepare mine for hunting. A tight fit is needed to prevent the bullet from migrating away from the powder charge during a day of hunting.

For range work they can be sized as small as 0.450" and shoot just as accurately. Sized bullets are much easier to load, although the unsized bullets are not hard to load either.

I recommend getting the correct mold. The larger mold was intended for the Whitworth rifle. While it may be possible to load and shoot them, bullets cast from the Lyman 451114 are more satisfactory.

You will enjoy your rifle.

Take care, Tom

[johnson1942]

heelerrau, for a paperpatched bullet just get a pushthrough reduceing sizer and reduce your cast groove bullet to the pp size you need. it will shoot just as good as a smooth sided bullet with a cupped base. same mould two diff bullets with the help of a resizer. also if for some reason they come out a hair on the too small diam size that can be fixed also. just roll them a little between two clean sharp flat files. that will knarl them nice up a few thousands. their you go have fun.

[Rattus58]

I recently picked up a .451 PH volunteer rifle,it came with a lyman mold 457121av,is this the correct mold or should I get the 451114 mold.
Thanks

The 457121 is a 45-70 mold of 470 grains or thereabouts. The 451114 is made for the .451 and is 450 grains, or thereabouts. I size my bullets for the volunteer at .452, whether a slimmed down 457 bullet or whatever as cast .451 bullets I have. I use wads with my volunteer and I also shoot a sweet 470 grain bullet fashioned after the 457121 but a .451with gas check and a more rounded nose. The upshot with my volunteer is that they all shoot superbly from that gun. The most forgiving and accurate gun I own.

[heelerau]

Gentlemen, have not been on this forum for awhile, am still waiting on my additions to my license before I can go pick up my 3 rifles. I am pretty sure that the rifle is Henry Rifled. Will order up the Lyman 451114 mould. I will post when the rifles arrive, just as a matter of interest, will try the mould it comes with, and will also mean time order a couple of platinum lined nipples for same. thanks all for the kind responses to my query.
Kind regards
heelerau

[Tatume]

Note that the Parker-Hale Enfield Volunteer uses musket caps and the correct nipples have English threads. The more common Italian copies use a metric thread nipple that is not interchangeable. I have not found platinum lined musket cap nipples with the correct 5/16"-18 tpi thread.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Search...=parker%20hale

[heelerau]

Tatume, I reckon Buffalo Arms seem to have the correct platinum lined nipples, 5/16 x 18 thread listed, I will double check before ordering them. They are pretty dear, guess platinum is real expensive.
Cheers
heelerau

[451whitworth]

I have an Italian made 451 Volunteer & Whitworth that use 5/16-20 threads on the nipples while my English made PH's are 5/16-18.

[Tatume]

All of the Italian Volunteers I have seen use 8-1.25 mm thread nipples. This is extremely close to 5/16-20 English threads. Eight millimeters is 0.315" and 5/16" is 0.313", while 1.25 mm thread is 20.320 tpi. I believe the Italian Volunteers all use metric thread nipples, but the sizes are just converted to English for convenience.

The Parker-Hale Volunteers are true 5/16"-18 tpi English threads.

[451whitworth]

well Tom, that makes sense. I always thought that 20 TPI was a strange choice but since my Pedersoli guns are not metric but all 1/4"-28 I didn't really think about it much. I just compared my 1.25 pitch gauge vs. 20 TPI gauge and the first 4-5 threads do line up but when you get to thread 6 the difference becomes visible.

[heelerau]

Gentlemen, tomorrow morning I finally pick up my Parker Hale Volunteer .451 and Navy Rifle. It has been a 7 week wait for the paperwork to work its way through. Will try them out next Saturday, it will be off the bench and only at 100yds, and will try the original owners loads. I will in due course as discussed in this thread purchase the correct mould, and later try paper patched bullets as well.
Cheers all
heelerau

[heelerau]

Gentlemen I banged off 13 rounds from the .451 today off the bench at my mates farm rifle range. I used 73 grains of FFg goex with a waxed card over powder wad, cleaned between shots, used a drop tube to charge with powder. The rifle shot very high. At 50 yds I had to aim at the bottom edge of the target to get it to print at about the 5/6 ring at 12 o'clock, I had to use the same point of aim at 100yds off the bench. It came with only 1 adjustable for windage rear sight blade. The rifle has been bedded, and all bands and tang were tight without being ridiculous. Considering I did not weigh any of the bullets and they were shot unsized as I do not have a sizing die at this stage, it grouped well enough, would have been 8 ring group. I would expect much better once I get properly sorted out with the correct bullet mould etc. The recoil was surprisingly mild to what I expected. I did put a new cone on the rifle as the original one was gas cut badly. Lube was 5/1 beeswax to unsalted lard, the projectile was pure lead. The rifle did not foul, and loaded easily each shot.
I may have to make a new sight blade with a much deeper cut to drop the point of aim, I have only the one insert for the hooded front sight, and I don't know whether they come in various nights, as wether the rifle would have had a set of interchangeable rear sight leaves. Can anyone confirm whether there were different leaves for 50 to 100yds. I suspect the rifle would be bang on at 200 with its current sight configuration, and yes the ladder was fully depressed, and there appears to be no fine elevation adjustment on the existing leaf, windage only.


Cheers


heelerau

[heelerau]

Gents fired at 200yds the other day, got 10 scoring shots out of 13. Nipple is badly gas cut, so will order a new platinum lined one and try the same load again and see it it tightens up. Still have to aim at the bottom of the white to print high in the black.

Cheers

heelerau

[Rattus58]

Gentlemen I banged off 13 rounds from the .451 today off the bench at my mates farm rifle range. I used 73 grains of FFg goex with a waxed card over powder wad, cleaned between shots, used a drop tube to charge with powder. The rifle shot very high. At 50 yds I had to aim at the bottom edge of the target to get it to print at about the 5/6 ring at 12 o'clock, I had to use the same point of aim at 100yds off the bench. It came with only 1 adjustable for windage rear sight blade. The rifle has been bedded, and all bands and tang were tight without being ridiculous. Considering I did not weigh any of the bullets and they were shot unsized as I do not have a sizing die at this stage, it grouped well enough, would have been 8 ring group. I would expect much better once I get properly sorted out with the correct bullet mould etc. The recoil was surprisingly mild to what I expected. I did put a new cone on the rifle as the original one was gas cut badly. Lube was 5/1 beeswax to unsalted lard, the projectile was pure lead. The rifle did not foul, and loaded easily each shot.
I may have to make a new sight blade with a much deeper cut to drop the point of aim, I have only the one insert for the hooded front sight, and I don't know whether they come in various nights, as wether the rifle would have had a set of interchangeable rear sight leaves. Can anyone confirm whether there were different leaves for 50 to 100yds. I suspect the rifle would be bang on at 200 with its current sight configuration, and yes the ladder was fully depressed, and there appears to be no fine elevation adjustment on the existing leaf, windage only.


Cheers


heelerau

You can't raise the front sight post???

[heelerau]

Rattus, I have now fitted a nice Pedersoli tang sight with some windage adjustment. Shot an 8 ring group at 100 off the bench, realise this is pretty poor, but just the other day my new platinum lined cone arrived and has been fitted, also got a .451 rotary wad punch. I am not going to use new wads, I just want to see how the group goes with just the new cone, before changing anything else. Will go to the range this Thursday. I now have a sensible point of aim for 100 yds. Pretty pleased with the new tang sight.

Cheers

Heelerau

Heelerau