Wc 852

[Boerrancher]

I don't know how much of this stuff is floating around out there but depending on the lot number it can be as fast as H4895 or as slow as H4831. Most lots like the 10 lb of the stuff I have is the same as H380. I spent the biggest part of the day figuring out which one I had. It is easy if you have a chronograph. I don't any more so it was old school all the way.

I started out with a custom built 30-06 with zero headspace. A full length sized case is tight on closing the bolt. I loaded a max load of IMR 3031 with a 150 gr HPBT and fired it, and then I fired a primed case. Now I have a high pressure load and a no pressure primer to compare. I started out with a middle of the road charge for H4895, according to the Hodgens manual for my 150 gr bullet and after firing compared the primer to my two controls, and it looked more like the case with the primer only.

I started increasing my powder charge a grain at a time and at the max charge for H4895, the primer wasn't close to looking like the one for the IMR 3031 load. As I comtinued to increase my charge into the mid H380 range the primer started to flatten out just a bit. I continued to slowly sneak up on it going to half grain increases in the powder and when I hit 59 grains the primer looked exactly like the 3031 load.

This is not the best method but poor people have poor ways. I do not recommend this method unless you know your gun and know what various pressures look like on a standard rifle primer in your gun. I have seen some nice rifles ruined by guys working up loads with unknown powders, or even known powders because they didn't understand pressure curves. Most guns that were wrecked were semi autos because the didn't understand the difference in port pressure when the gas port was 4 inches in front of the chamber vs when it was down near the muzzle.

Best wishes

Joe

[kbstenberg]

Joe what was the accuracy like. Kevin

[swheeler]

What lot number is this?

[Boerrancher]

What lot number is this?

BAJ 47289 is the lot number

[Boerrancher]

Joe what was the accuracy like. Kevin

I haven't gotten that far with it yet. I was only shooting single loads of each charge to find a comparable powder. I knew it had to be H4895, H380, or H4831 as those were what was duplicated with that powder, the majority of the lots being H380.

Best wishes

Joe

[TCLouis]

As I remember there were actually three different speeds for WC 852.

I sent the info to the folks over the two cast pages and have since lost the complete info. Jeff Bartlett sold all three at one time and listed their relative speeds.

The medium rate (possibly the fast version) as I remember it was very short lived on the market.

RVO sold only the slow 4831 version and that was before I found Bartlett.

I have the two of them.

Will check tomorrow for lot #s. One is from RVO and is the 4831 version.

[frnkeore]

I bought two 8 lb jug from RVO, 15 years ago, I still have about 5 lb left. They were calling it about H414 speed but, it was obviously slower with my first '06 loads and proved to be closer to H4831. There was no prefix to the lot #47298.

Frank

[Boerrancher]

Frank mine definately has the prefix, and it is way to fast to be 4831. I would hate to shoot much more than the 59 gr load as with 59 grains I was starting to get enough pressure that the primer was starting to flow back around the firing pin and in to the firing pin hole on the bolt face. Two to three grains more and I would be blowing primers. With a 150 grain bullet you can't get enough 4831 in a 30-06 to blow primers, and I can easily do it with this WC852.

Best wishes,

Joe

[frnkeore]

I also (at the same time) I bought 8 lb of what they called WC52F and they said it had a rate of H380 and in my testing in 308 and 30/30, it did have that rate.

I repacked it into 1 quart (2 lb) bottles so, I don't have the original jug to get info from. Maybe that is what your prefix inicates? It sounds like what your finding.

frank

[swheeler]

I also (at the same time) I bought 8 lb of what they called WC52F and they said it had a rate of H380 and in my testing in 308 and 30/30, it did have that rate.

I repacked it into 1 quart (2 lb) bottles so, I don't have the original jug to get info from. Maybe that is what your prefix inicates? It sounds like what your finding.

frank

never heard of such a powder

[frnkeore]

Sorry, typo, it was ment to be WC852F

Frank

[Reload3006]

If only there were some available. Someday hopefully this mess will be over. I have plenty of powder but would really like to get some more Mil surp powder its just not out there other than the 50 and 20mm stuff.

[Idahojoe]

I have jug of RVO wc852 (IMR 4831, 4350 rate). Could a person come up with a load 87%-90% to start for CB & PPCB in 375 H&H, 253grn safely?? It has a chart listing 66gn for 300gn 338 mag j-word slug. The 338 is the largest listed but the case capacity is only slightly smaller. Any thoughts? Thanks. Idahojoe

[Buckshot]

You can go here: http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Surplus/default.html and find some WC852 data. My first experience with it was in the early '90's and I had a, or 'the' fast lot. Pat at GI Brass sent me a copy of the 7 page government acceptance paperwork from the Baraboo, WI Army ammunition plant. Even described the containers it was put up in, in addition to it's chemical makup and percentages of residue left in barrels after 100 rounds. In my M77 Ruger 30-06 it was showing pressures with 125gr Sierra's at 2800 fps. The slow lot was MUCH more usefull for maximum effort cast boolit loads in the old full power military cartridges.

I did a group buy many years ago through Lee for a 8mm SC mould dropping a 236gr slug @ .326".



For some reason I had 2600 fps on my mind and felt I could reach this using this slug and WC852. I started out low and used GREX (the Winchester shot buffer) from the git-go. I have all the data in my range sheets but suffice to say I DID reach that velocity. Accuracy was quite good up to around 2300 fps. I did not change lube or alloy up to the end. I was using a Turkish M38/46 bolt action, 24" barrel rifle and managed to split the wrist via the barreled action moving backward in the stock!

I also used the slow lot in my 375-06 AI 40º with 328gr and 352gr NEI cast boolits. Recoil was all you could ask for, and since Rhino's and Elephants had been scarce in my neighborhood for a considerable time I didn't see much future in them

..............Buckshot

[argie1891]

I have a part of a jug of the same powder, as a matter of fact I loaded some last night in the 243 win.. the data that came with it is kinda confusing. it lists about the same data as for 4831 in the 30-06 and about the same charge weight as 4895 in the 243. I loaded it on the light side and plan on shooting over the crono that should give some idea as to the burn rate. I have shot one round with this powder and the same charge in 243 just as a test and it showed no high pressure signs. I just loaded some more to test for velocity and accuracy. I really like the surplus powder it is fun to work with but mostly I like the price. the 852 I have was given to me. I have surplus 680 860 846 and data powder 2200. I have shot the 680 with cast some loads shot pretty well in the 308. the 860 leaves tons of unburned powder. I just looked I still have a pound of surplus 4831 and 4895. argie1891

[argie1891]

I shot some 243 loads over the crono with 852 powder my lot number is not the same as the one above it is off by one number the number is BAJ 47288 the max load listed with the paper work that came with it is 43 gr. I loaded 41.5 and got an average velocity of 2662fps.. now I had flat primers real flat. I haven't owned this rifle long and shot it not at all so it may just be the rifle. I sure wont load any more until I shoot a few factory loads to compare. I don't care about the velocity as I am having a girl practice with it for antelope hunting and I will load hunting loads later for now I just want her to get some trigger time and get used to the rifle. argie1891

[M99SavNut]

I have some WC852, also lot BAJ 47289. Mine came with a load data sheet for cartridges all the way from the .243 to the .338 Mag that indicated speed much more like 4350/4831 than 4895 (IMRs all). 61.5 grains was the max for the .30-06 with the 152-grain M2 ball bullet, with velocity of (only) 2731. Contrast that with contemporary IMR 4895 data from DuPont showing 49.5 max, with velocity of 2845.

PLEASE be careful with this powder! A friend of mine did a bit of extrapolation with this powder, and from this data, and completely dismantled a Sako L461 in .270 Winchester. I've never even considered using it in my Garand because of the port pressure issue - op rods are too hard to come by, and far too easy to bend. Perhaps with one of the new gas port regulators now available this could be dealt with adequately, but why bother?

Just my 2c worth...........

[BD]

You can not really "extrapolate" most surplus powder loads. In addition to the relative speed, you need to consider the pressure curve, density sensitivity and temperature sensitivity. One or more of these factors may not track the arbitrarily chosen canister powder you are using for comparison at all. As an example, there were several lots of WC820 that tracked H110 pretty closely in the .44 mag using boolits in the 240 - 250 grain range. However with heavier boolits in the 300+ grain range, (yet still in the .44 mag), charge weights/pressures were much closer to AA#9. Another example is the slower lot of WC852 which Pat sold about 10 years ago. It fell exactly between H4831 and IMR 4831 in the 6.5x55 with mid weight bullets, and was consistently similar in the 30-06 and 7x57, but try extrapolating that into the .270 WBY mag with heavy bullets and you'd be lucky to walk away without a bolt stuck in your forehead. You really need to pick your application, and then look for information and do some comparison load work up in that precise application. These lots of Mil Surp powder were developed for very particular applications, without any consideration at all for the consequences of their use outside of those particular applications. and a least a few of these lots became surplus because they exhibited characteristics which made someone think that they weren't suitable for the intended application. Don't get me wrong, they are very useful powders. But it is just not as simple as saying "Surplus powder X = Canister powder Y" and going from there beyond the cartridge the powder was originally intended to fill.
BD

[REM1875]

Back in the 90's I went through a pound of the stuff and liked it so much that I went back to a gun show and bought 8 lbs (I still have a lot of it)
I verified the loads with "cartridges of the world" by Barnes, I am much smarter about Barnes dubious data today.
I load up a what I thought was a mild load from my data from the first pound and touched it off-
that is when I learned there was more than one type of WC-852. Surprise, Surprise, Surprise.
The gun and I both survived, I think it was a old model 14 or 141 Remington pump in 30 REM.
Yeah I know there are better powders but being poor and dumb, ya use what you have.