HM² 30/31 cal 160gr 6 CAV - Ed Harris Design

[A pause for the COZ]

What mag and C.O.A.L what you using?


Thanks
CHris

Hmmm cant remember. Whats those cheap plastic mags you get for like 5 bucks? I purchased about 20 of them.
Now they want 20 bucks each. I have worn out a couple. They are just range mags.
COAL... Crimp groove.
I really think I got lucky. This was their display upper. and I bet a dollar to a donut. I got the 1st barrel from a brand new chamber reamer.

Oh here is a pic.

[Outpost75]

Attachment 82287

Here are SIXTY rounds fired continuously without cleaning at 100 yards from my .30-'06 Mauser hunting rifle.

These are with NO gascheck, firing a mild "Appleseed trainer" load at about 1300 fps. Bullets were cast from straight wheelweights, loaded as-cast and unsized, lightly tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox, loaded in mixed headstamp GI Ball cases with Remington 9-1/2 primers and 8.4 grains of Bullseye pistol powder. No filler. No effort was made to orient the powder, just load'em and shoot'em. Each 5-shot string was fired in a cadence of about 30 seconds, then reload-repeat to complete each 10-shot group. Waited 5 minutes between each 10-shot group.

There are four ten-shot groups and a 20-shot one which gives a "weather report" as the wind blew one shot way out, and I just hammered another ten rounds into that group without a cooling interval, firing through the heat mirage coming off the barrel............ Two-inch 10-shot groups from a standard hunting rifle with 4X scope, post reticle and skinny European Schnable fore-end is reality.

[NYBushBro]

I was reading some info on the Hensley & Gibbs site and noticed that the H&G FN 30-30 bullet has the same meplat as this one: .155".

#86 - .30 caliber "standard .30-30" bullet. 170 grains in linotype at 1.000" length. Also available at .827" length =135grains in linotype. Gas check base, two round grease grooves, one crimp groove. .155" nose meplat.

Good choice, JT... and thanks to Mr. Harris for his input on this one.

[Outpost75]

Today also tested in 7.62x39 Sako A2, no GC, 4.5 grains of Bullseye, with Sako peep Zeroed at 200 meters with PS Ball, the 160 cast with no GC shoots on at 100 yards with the 200 meter iron sight setting, and at 50 yards with the 100 meter setting on Sako factory peep. With 4.5 grains of Bullseye in IMI cases with WLR primers, does not " crack", is subsonic, more accurate than ball ammo.

Average of five consecutive 5-shot groups at 100 yards, Sako A2, 4X Weaver:

HM2-312-160-5, no GC, WW, LLA, 4.5 Bullseye Largest 1.55, Smallest 1.10, Average 1.33"

PS Ball 539 - 67 copper washed steel 122-grain FMJBT Largest 2.7, Smallest 1.9, Average 2.22"

Winchester Factory load 123-gr. PP, Largest 2.1, Smallest 1.12", Average 1.60"

In. 30-30 Winchester with GC, sized .311", seated to 2.50" OAL, 30 grs of 4064 is compressed, so no crimp is required, 2080 fps from 94 Winchester, point of impact and groups just like factory ammo. Bullet nose is lightly engraved upon chambering. No leading. "Maximum Effort" hunting load for ww alloy.

Next test is to try in 7.62x39 with GC, compressed caseful of 4064 (about 25 grs.) similar concept to the .30-30 load, hoping for about 1850 fps in 20" barrel, and 3-4" ten -shot groups at 200 yards.

Stay tuned.

[A pause for the COZ]

I agree, This a great 30-30 bullet. Both my 30-30's really like this bullet. ESP my Savage 340.
I shoot them ahead of 15.5gr 2400. Gets them out there about 1700 fps

[Fishman]

Well I finally had a chance today to cast with my .312 version of this mold. This is after some STELLAR service from JT after a thieving post office employee "cleverly" removed the molds from the shipping box and taped it back up to make it look like nothing had happened. JT kindly shipped me replacement molds at his expense and he deserves to be recognized for such outstanding customer service. Thanks JT, I appreciate it.

After washing in soap and water, running through three heat and cool cycles, then preheating to casting temp, the mold started dropping good boolits after about the tenth cast. I quickly cast up about a hundred and fifty, then took them to my man room to see what I had. The bands measure a little fat at .314, but that is just great, since it opens up additional possibilities for use in .303 etc. The nose profile measures spot on as in the diagram JT posted. And that is where I realized I had messed up.

Like Pause for the Cause, I had bought this mold with one of its primary uses being my 300 blackout. But unlike Pause's kick--s rifle (just look at his groups!), my rifle throat is way too tight. I measured the Lee 155's I have been using, which require me to seat to a maximum length of 1.98 or they jam in the throat. At about 0.15" up from the crimp groove, I need a diameter of .304" or less, and JT's mold is casting .306"+. Deeper seating doesn't appear to be an option, as the diameter doesn't decrease to .304" until approximately 0.30" up from the crimp groove. To top it off, when crimped at the crimp groove, the .155 meplat jams solidly into the barrel lugs, with little chance of feeding.

So the bottom line is that it appears the boolit nose is too fat, and too flat, to work in my rifle. I really wanted a boolit with a flat meplat so that I could use this gun for hunting.

Note that none of this is JT's fault. On the contrary, he delivered the product he spelled out in the first post on this thread. I just was too inexperienced with semi auto's and the 300 blackout in particular to make the right decision. All is not lost for sure, because I have several .308 and .312+ bolt and lever guns to use this in. I thought this cautionary tale might be of some use to others, particularly the new casters and reloaders that are getting into the hobby to make less expensive ammo for their blackout. JT's blackout-specific design should work perfect, and I guess that's the direction I will go, unless someone has some other suggestions to make this design work.

[turmech]

Fishman,

I was tempted by the mold for use with my 300 blackout, but decided against it. Nothing against the mold I was just not educated enough to know if it would feed by looking at the bullet sketch. I had been watching this thread and feeling somewhat disappointed that I did not get in on it after seeing some of the results in the blackout.

I don't know if it will help you in your quest for a hunting bullet for the blackout, but I have been having good results with the Lee 309-150 RF seated to 1.875 with several different magazines. The gun is a 16” CMMG.

[Fishman]

Turmec, if you could answer a couple of questions: Are you seating deeper than the crimp groove? And what is the diameter 0.15" up from your crimping location?

I have the lee 170 so I will look at that one as well.

[mookiie]

JTKnives - any .316 molds left?

[turmech]

Fishman, I am seating them to the top lube groove with one drive band, crimp grove and crimp band exposed (if that is the right terminology). I am sizing to .309 and that is what the 2 bands outside of the case measure. When you go up from the top of the case towards the nose .15” I am getting a measurement of .302-.303. Gas checks are just below the neck, just thought I would mention that.

[garym1a2]

Mine did not work in my ar15 blackout, the flat nose would hit and ftf. But, it did work on my brothers Blackout quite well. His rifle has M4 feed ramps and mine does not. Still it looks like it will be a good mold for my M91/30 and other 30 cal rifles.

[NYBushBro]

I agree, This a great 30-30 bullet. Both my 30-30's really like this bullet. ESP my Savage 340.
I shoot them ahead of 15.5gr 2400. Gets them out there about 1700 fps

I'll have to try this one out in my Savage Super Sporters (30-30, 300 SAV, 30-06)!

[A pause for the COZ]

Wow Fishman I am sorry this bullet does not fit your 300 Black Out. Just goes to show that every gun is different even when they are the same.
I tried this bullet in my Savage 308 win. Its too fat for that gun, but the LEE bullet shoots great.
Although it was an added cost. I decided to order the LEE copy also. Had he offered the LEE bullet 1st I would have just purchased that one and not gotten this mold.
I am glad he did not. I like this mold and so do my AK's, SKS, 7,62x54's,300 Black out,and my 30-30's.
But I figured I could not pass up a chance at a 6 cavity LEE copy. That will make my 308 happy and I can pick and choose the bullet for the rest.


NYBushBro: Your Savage Super Sporter's should like this bullet. The LEE shot fine but I had to seat them deeper than I wanted to get them to fit the mag. This bullet seats at the top end of the crimp groove and still fits the mag.

[Fishman]

Fishman, I am seating them to the top lube groove with one drive band, crimp grove and crimp band exposed (if that is the right terminology). I am sizing to .309 and that is what the 2 bands outside of the case measure. When you go up from the top of the case towards the nose .15” I am getting a measurement of .302-.303. Gas checks are just below the neck, just thought I would mention that.

Thanks for the detailed response. I think I need that mold. It would be cheap enough to try it. I will play around with the 170 version I have first to see if it will feed.

I think im going to spring for the lee copy JT is making too. I know it will work since it is based off some boolits I sent him. lol

[mckenziedrums]

I'll take a .316 and I'll call you here shortly.

[Outpost75]

Followup on my range testing of HM .312-160-5 Ed Harris design:

7.62x39 Sako A2, 20" bbl., IMI case Rem. 9-1/2 primer, 24 grs. RL7, 2046 fps, 8 Sd, 13 ES, N=10, 2" ten-shot group at 100 yds. This should cycle an SKS or AK reliably.

as above 24 grs. IMR4064 1650 fps, 16Sd, 51 ES, also 2" for ten shots at 100 yds.

as above 15.5 #2400 1774 Avg., 15 Sd, 42 ES, also 2" for ten shots at 100, fired from sandbags with 4X Weaver classic.

Winchester 94 .30-30, 2.50" OAL, 16 grs. #2400, 1737 fps, 14 Sd, 35 ES, 3" at 100 yards with iron sights, same POI as factory Super-X 170-gr. PP ammo.

.30-'06 Winchester 54, 8.4 grains Bullseye, no GC, 1342 fps, 12 Sd, 38 ES, 2.2" at 100 yards with iron sights. This is a great gallery load for low cost shooting, approximates .32-40 velocity.

as above, but gaschecked, 30 grs. IMR40-64, 1682 Avg., 14 Sd, 46 ES, 2.1" at 100 yards with iron sights.

[mckenziedrums]

Didn't see my name on the paid list... just wanted to make sure it's not missed!

[rollmyown]

Does anyone have one of these in .312 they didn't need or don't use?

I'm looking for one. PM if you can help.

[autodidact]

NOE has a group buy for this mold in "last call" status right now.