loading HM² 223 AR mold 225-62-1

[Centaur 1]

I'm just about finished load development with heavy J bullets in my RRA w/ 1-8 twist. I've been able to trade for two .225 bullets and have 3 .225 molds,After the J bullet test I'll start on cast, after that I'll work a trade with you on what I have and let you run a test .
One think you do need to locate is a neck expander ie. an M-Die for .224 Cal. I think ??? RCBS sells the body and interchangeable expander/belling plugs.

I've been using the Lee universal expander up until now, and it's always worked well. I'm guessing from yours and blikseme300's posts, that at some point the m-die is required with small calibers.

Remember to be careful with the Dacron filler, and don't pack it down against the powder.

[Wayne S]

Fillers, a good read http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...use-of-fillers

[mookiie]

What is the purpose of using fillers?

[Down South]

What is the purpose of using fillers?

Some loads that use hotter, faster burning powder and take up little case space do better with a filler. This helps keep the powder to the rear of the case for better uniform burn.
For a load with most of the case capacity used, a filler should not be needed.
There are others here that can define this better than me since I don't use fillers much.

[Xfire68]

How are you guys expanding the case mouths so there is no shear of the boolits or in my case it grabbed the gas check and tore it off?

I have never had the need to expand the case mouth on 5.56 as I have always used jacketed projectiles.

[Xfire68]

I will order a Lee Universal case expander.

[grampa243]

I will order a Lee Universal case expander.

that is what i use..and i anneal the brass too.

[TreeKiller]

Expander from Buckshot in a M Die .228 flair .223 for the boolits

[mookiie]

What type of alloy composition do you guys use for 223 with gas checks to not get leading?

[Xfire68]

that is what i use..and i anneal the brass too.

Good to know I picked well!

[seagiant]

What's the twist rate of your barrel? I recently bought my first AR, it's a Daniel Defense with a 1-7" barrel. I'd love to be able to use cast boolits, but I'm afraid of wasting time and money on something that isn't going to work.

Hi,
I have the 62 gr. Mihec mold and use 19grs. of 4895 with my Daniel Defense CHF CL 1:7 HF Barrel and it shoots good and fuctions 100%! I size to .226!

[SharpShot]

Hi all,

I just tried working up a load for this bullet yesterday. I'm still a newbie to casting and reloading but I was happy enough with the results. I worked this load up in my stock Colt 6920 with the 16in 1/7 twist barrel. The targets were set up at only 100ft. My bullets ended up in the range of 62.4 to 63.2 gr lubed with gas check. I pan lubed them with Carnauba Red then tumbled them in liquid alox. I probably could have done without the liquid alox. I didn't notice any leading at all. I sorted my bullets by .1gr. I tried 5 shots each of 17 - 21.5 gr of IMR4895 in .5gr increments. I haven't been able to get hold the Lyman M die for 223 anywhere so I just carefully seated them while trying not to rip chunks off the gas check. The action would not function reliably till 18.5gr but at 18.5gr the bolt did not lock back on the last round. After that function was 100% but my groups started to spread out pretty bad after 19.5 gr. At 21gr I didn't even know were 2 of the bullets ended up. Then at 21.5 all 5 shots showed back up on the target. I then shot 2 groups of PMC bronze factory rounds as a comparison. It looks to me that the 18.5-19gr groups were pretty comparable in size to the factory jacketed loads with my rifle at that range. I think I may be able to load somewhere in between, like 18.7gr, and see if that will still lock the bolt back on the last round. I also want to see how this load does out at 50 and 100 yrds. I need a chrono. It would be nice to know what velocity I'm launching these little things at. Any educated guesses?

[louism]

Thanks for posting your load development. It will be very useful.

[Larry Gibson]

At 33 1/3 yards those groups are definitely telling you the RPM Threshold is exceeded. Guesstimate on velocity; too much. Suggest dropping back to 16.5 gr 4895, use a 1/2 gr dacron filler and work back up just functional reliability. The dacron will help with ignition and give more gas port pressure at a bit less velocity with probable better accuracy.

Larry Gibson

[finishman2000]

just did some quick function tests with these pain in the *** (my fingers are way to big for gas checks on 22's lol) little wonders. 18.0, 18.5 and 19 grains of 4895 in both an ak and a piston ar (stag model 8). all three loads worked the action and even locked back the ar.
I'll be going to the range later to chrono and group these and will post back.

[Wayne S]

Hi all,
I then shot 2 groups of PMC bronze factory rounds as a comparison. It looks to me that the 18.5-19gr groups were pretty comparable in size to the factory jacketed loads with my rifle at that range. I think I may be able to load somewhere in between, like 18.7gr, and see if that will still lock the bolt back on the last round. I also want to see how this load does out at 50 and 100 yrds. I need a chrono. It would be nice to know what velocity I'm launching these little things at. Any educated guesses?

Keep us informed with your progress, AND your cleaning procedure, if any, when going from cast to jacketed, and also the other way as well.
Also, see if you can find a friend with any 223 with slower twists anywhere from, a 1-8 or 1-9 to 1-12 twist bbl. just to see what effect the slower twists have on your loads

[finishman2000]

well just got back. the 18.0gr was pretty much the same vel in both guns. averaged 1750.
18.5 came in at 1870 with ar and 1775 with ak.
19.0 cam ein at 1951 average with the ar and 1800 with the ak. the ak barrel has been cut down to 13.5 and it is clear to see that the slower powder doesn't like the shorter barrel. the ar has a 1:9, ak 1:7.
all three is good enough for me since I will be using these to shoot steel out to 100yards and just for cheap practice.

Checked thye barrels, both are clean and shiny with zero lead seen.

[Wayne S]

Are those marker "tiks' on the boles usually at 12:00 to 1:00 ??

[finishman2000]

marker hacks so I could tell the ar from the ak holes. 5 ar's 2 or 3 aks

[SharpShot]

Thanks for your feedback Larry. I have read quite a few of your posts in my research before starting cast with the 223 and have found your insight useful. I have read about the rpm threshold from your posts. Do you feel that all my groups are above this threshold? I figured getting close to factory accuracy from 17.5 -18.5 gr was promising. I do agree that my groups from 19gr and up appear to push past the threshold since the groups get progressively worse. I just got a hold of a lyman die and already loaded a few rounds at 18.5 18.7 and 19gr, but if I can get some dacron before the weekend I will definitely do as you suggest. I would love to see the groups shrink. Also, I just ordered a chronograph so hopefully it will show up before this weekend so I can have more detailed results to post.

It will be interesting to see how my velocities compare to finishman2000's.

Wayne, I shot 60 cast rounds with minimum jacketed data for Tac and CFE 223 before I got any 4895. The bore was clean. I probably shot another 40 jacketed rounds before that and did not clean in between. I shot those rounds mainly for function but did shoot some at paper and the groups were bigger than my best 4895 loads. I then shot 60 more cast loads and 40 more jacketed without cleaning in between and the bore still looks clean. I plan on cleaning my rifle before this weekend just because its been a little while since the last cleaning. I unfortunately don't have any buddies with ARs but one guy has a Remington 700 in 223. I don't know what twist it is but its hard to get him out to shoot. He cleans is guns more than he shoots them. But, if I get the chance i'll see if he'll let me use it. I will definitely keep you all posted on my progress.