44 mag Deer Load

[TCTex]

I am not trying to stir the pot, just throwing info out there...

A lot of factory 44 ammo pushes a 240gr bullet at 1200fps.

Current production factory 44 ammo is anemic compared to what it use to be.

IMHO, if you do your part and put the bullet where it needs to go you don't have to worry about the small stuff. To me 100-150 is small stuff. If I am having to depend on 100 fps difference in performance "I" didn't do something right.

[44man]

Going to need some expansion to slow the boolit/bullet in the deer, no way out but a miss is still going to be a worry.
I am thinking of a pure lead nose on a hard base for cast. Actually the 240 XTP does good behind the shoulders, I recovered all three I used against the rib cage. Just almost no blood trails but I seen the deer all drop at around 60 yards. A Gold Dot should get through but will be very slow after.
Hard cast from a revolver will surprise you with it's penetration, my .45 colt at 1160 fps penetrated a 16" tree, cut a huge grapevine in half and I never found the boolit in the dirt. Hard from the .475 does 37" in soaked books. A house will not stop these.
I would stay away from light, explosive bullets like the 180. You can lose a lot of deer. Forget about "dump", it doesn't work.
All of this is why I don't like a .357 for deer, too hard to get exactly the right bullet and half the deer shot can be lost.
A lot is said about "placement" but don't forget, it is a revolver and the number of those that "place" a boolit is very, very small on deer. Many can't do it with a rifle. You must kill a great many deer before they don't excite you any more.
We have a great bunch here but some never killed a deer, some killed a few and some killed many so the range of expertise is not that large. An excited hunter can be blind to surroundings when a deer appears. It takes experience to see all and let a deer walk or wait for the perfect shot that is safe. I will never stop stressing safety, there is not a single deer worth being unsafe. There is also an element of greed with some hunters that blind them.
We are here for a reason, we shoot all the time and get to know each other. 99% of hunters never take the rifle out until opening day, archers and revolver shooters shoot all year. I fully expect those here to be the best and the OP has voiced a valid concern, he earned top shot from me.

[nickE10mm]

....99% of hunters never take the rifle out until opening day, archers and revolver shooters shoot all year. I fully expect those here to be the best and the OP has voiced a valid concern, he earned top shot from me.

Yep .... I've been out about 40-45 weekends in the last 12 months with my SBH Hunter.... I'll be quite ready, as usual.

[rondog]

OK, I don't have the stuff to cast bullets yet, I hang out here for many other reasons. But as I mentioned earlier, I plan to try for a deer this year with my .44mg Winchester Trapper. At under 100 yards in a populated rural area.

So, I have commercial-made 240gr. LSWC's that I've loaded, which might be too hard? I also have these two types of .44mag bullets. Would either of these be more suitable for the situation? I know the Leverevolutions are made for deer, just not familiar with their performance. The other is a Winchester bullet, I can't recall the weight, but essentially a Ranger SXT-type s/d bullet. Like the old Black Talons only not black.

[white eagle]

"Going to need some expansion to slow the boolit/bullet in the deer, no way out but a miss is still going to be a worry.
I am thinking of a pure lead nose on a hard base for cast."

that is why i will be using a gas checked boolit alloyed out of 16-1 at moderate speed 1227 fps
not a really a jynormous deep hp but not a small shallow one either

[44man]

I think all those would work. In all these years I can only go by what I have seen and have not tried all those bullets. This is where I just don't know and can't tell anything.
Yet no matter what you decide on, know where you are and where all houses are. Also think of the yards with a neighbor outside.
The best I can suggest is to hunt from a tree stand so you shoot at the ground.

[IridiumRed]

The best I can suggest is to hunt from a tree stand so you shoot at the ground.

+1 on that. A BIG +1

Getting some elevation so you can shoot down and prevent a ricochet that way.... is a real good idea

Rondog - forgive me if you already said this earlier in the thread, but is this land totally flat, or are there are least some small hills, any sort of river/creek gullies (even old waterways that are dry now). Any of those could help provide a natural backstop so you are shooting more into a hill, rather than just flat ground

Also, do you currently shoot on this land?? Or have another place to shoot that's easy / convenient to get to? If so, I think it would be interesting to do a little testing. With a good safe backstop, put some targets on the ground and a big piece of cardboard behind them, and shoot at those targets at various angles. That would give you an idea of how easily your bullets will bounce... and at what angles. Of course, do this in such a way that if they bounce, no matter what angle they bounce off, that they'll be caught by the backstop....

Now, IF you had a place like that to try this, the surface would have to be about the same as where you hunt to make it relevant - ie, if the target area was hard packed gravel, and where you hunt is just regular dirt / grass, it wouldn't necessarily teach you that much......

Anyways. Just throwing out an idea. Personally I keep thinking that a low / moderate velocity cast bullet will ricochet more than a higher velocity JHP because it (the cast bullet) just wont break up when it hits the ground.... and like a 22 LR bounce pretty easily. A couple of those JHP loads shown above might be a good solution, esp that hornady load, but I'd have to look up more before I voted that way...


As always sorry for being so wordy

[rondog]

+1 on that. A BIG +1

Getting some elevation so you can shoot down and prevent a ricochet that way.... is a real good idea

Rondog - forgive me if you already said this earlier in the thread, but is this land totally flat, or are there are least some small hills, any sort of river/creek gullies (even old waterways that are dry now). Any of those could help provide a natural backstop so you are shooting more into a hill, rather than just flat ground

Also, do you currently shoot on this land?? Or have another place to shoot that's easy / convenient to get to? If so, I think it would be interesting to do a little testing. With a good safe backstop, put some targets on the ground and a big piece of cardboard behind them, and shoot at those targets at various angles. That would give you an idea of how easily your bullets will bounce... and at what angles. Of course, do this in such a way that if they bounce, no matter what angle they bounce off, that they'll be caught by the backstop....

Now, IF you had a place like that to try this, the surface would have to be about the same as where you hunt to make it relevant - ie, if the target area was hard packed gravel, and where you hunt is just regular dirt / grass, it wouldn't necessarily teach you that much......

Anyways. Just throwing out an idea. Personally I keep thinking that a low / moderate velocity cast bullet will ricochet more than a higher velocity JHP because it (the cast bullet) just wont break up when it hits the ground.... and like a 22 LR bounce pretty easily. A couple of those JHP loads shown above might be a good solution, esp that hornady load, but I'd have to look up more before I voted that way...


As always sorry for being so wordy

To be honest, I don't know, never been there. The owner is an acquaintance who's told me it's 10 acres of pasture. I know the terrain is gently rolling hills, surrounded with other 10 acre "horse properties".

The deer are so thick they're a nuisance, traffic hazard, and the DOW wants to prevent a CWD outbreak. This particular landowner gets 10 depradation permits for does each fall to help thin them out.

He says the shooting lanes are fairly limited, so they prefer to go to a certain spot and shoot back towards his own house, rather than endanger neighbors.

He usually uses a 9mm carbine, with the Game Warden's blessing, others use his .30-30. I have the Winchester .44, we figure that's gotta be safer than a .30-30 in that area. My next choice is an M1 .30 carbine with Barnes 100gr. hollowpoints, made for deer and loaded hot.

The M1 has a red dot on it, and is deadly accurate (it's a 70's-era Plainfield in great shape, not a worn-out USGI). I have a 4x Bushnell Banner for the Winnie, waiting for the mailman to deliver the new scope mount for it right now. I want to be able to do this in one accurate shot.

[IridiumRed]

To be honest, I don't know, never been there. The owner is an acquaintance who's told me it's 10 acres of pasture. I know the terrain is gently rolling hills, surrounded with other 10 acre "horse properties".

The deer are so thick they're a nuisance, traffic hazard, and the DOW wants to prevent a CWD outbreak. This particular landowner gets 10 depradation permits for does each fall to help thin them out.

He says the shooting lanes are fairly limited, so they prefer to go to a certain spot and shoot back towards his own house, rather than endanger neighbors.

He usually uses a 9mm carbine, with the Game Warden's blessing, others use his .30-30. I have the Winchester .44, we figure that's gotta be safer than a .30-30 in that area. My next choice is an M1 .30 carbine with Barnes 100gr. hollowpoints, made for deer and loaded hot.

The M1 has a red dot on it, and is deadly accurate (it's a 70's-era Plainfield in great shape, not a worn-out USGI). I have a 4x Bushnell Banner for the Winnie, waiting for the mailman to deliver the new scope mount for it right now. I want to be able to do this in one accurate shot.

Well, I think that answers some of the questions / potential issues I had.... Sounds like the property owner (your friend) has hunted the property a fair amount, and already has an understanding of the layout & potential problems. And shooting back towards his property isn't a bad idea. I mean, if there is a bullet that bounces, its more fair / ethical to let it bounce back towards your side than someone else's..... not a great solution but a more fair one....

Between your .44 and that M1 carbine, I'd say "Shoot whichever one you can hit the best with"

If you can ensure that the bullet hits the deer, even if it goes through, then 90% of the ricochet worries are nullified, in my humble opinion.... esp with a fast moving, expanding bullet. It should lose most of its energy in the deer, and be going pretty slow & be pretty beat up by the time it exits... if it exits at all.......

Anyways. Just my 2 cents. Probably up to a quarter by now given all the posts... *laughs* though I don't know if its worth a quarter.. haha

[dmize]

My 2 cents.
I live in central Missouri.I shot 2 deer with the much talked about "hard casts".
1 with a 44 Mag and 250 Keith and 1 with a hyper loaded 45 Colt with a 270 RCBS. The buck with the 45 is the LAST deer around here I will intentionally shoot with a cast bullet,EXCEPT for my 454.
Our deer aren't huge and our brush is thick.
I have killed about 10 using XTP's,very predictable results,HUGE blood splash at place of impact and heavy blood trail and always 2 holes.
I am a bow hunter and only shoot for heart/lungs.
I played around with Black Talons when I was a cop,the behave almost exactly like a Hornady XTP.
One word of warning,if you get into a shoulder or ham you will be throwing away some meat.

[44man]

You can't shoot hard boolits too fast as I have said a million times. Going lighter in the .44 justs ups the velocity even when you work the boolit for accuracy. Taking a 240-250 gr boolit to 1500 to 1600 fps will lose deer and it seems most .44 owners look for velocity.
Might be why my heavy boolit choice for hard cast works better because they are slower.
I can assure anyone that hard boolits shot to max in a .454 might be far worse.
The .45 Colt with 335 to 347 gr boolits at 1160 fps has done a great job on deer. I will never go to a hard 250 gr at as fast as I can drive them.
Velocity can be your enemy, there are places where expansion MUST be used.
Expansion is GOOD as long as you get depth and the boolit does not break up or stop with even little bone or fails to penetrate deep enough with a quartering shot.
Anyone with a failure from hard cast is always shooting too fast.

[Blammer]

my two cents

44mag 1350 fps 250gr RF bullet, ACWW distance about 12 yds.

bullet path in green, complete penetration.

[44man]

Good Blammer, see what I mean? Don't need or want 1500 fps+ with a hard boolit.
Nice deer too. Seeing the bloodshot area, the boolit did a lot inside without meat loss.
I bet you needed to hose that one out good!
By the way 2 cents not enough, how about $100?

[Blammer]

actually, I shot that deer one more time as I thought I missed at such a close range. Buck fever don't you know.

anyway, as the deer was running directly away from me. I put another one down range at him. The bullet went between the skin and the rib cage on the deer's right side and then out missing the front shoulder and any other bones. 2 inches to the right and I would have missed clean, two more inches to the left and I would have taken out the heart.

That is all the blood shot meat you see on the rib cage. It's on the outside only.

the deer ran a total of 30 yds and piled up.

the entrance and exit holes were very clean.

[RED333]

Well I finely got to cast some 210 gr and 230 gr, over 6 gr of titegroup.
40 yards with a scope about 1.5 to 2 inch spread. Now I am a fair shooter,
not great, so far I am happy for the first time out with a new pistol.(well new to me)
New Model Super Black Hawk