simple Hi-Tek coating

[Avenger442]

Boy with all my hobbies and chores, I only make it here every few months and then I have days of reading to catch up. It usually always cost me money every time I visit also. So I now am hearing about this new bonded mold release. I was just getting ready to make some more boolits and swung by this site and what do you know, I now have some bonded mold release and another color of Hitec on the way. I probably have enough hitek to last me a couple more years and with as hard as it is to find primers, maybe more but couldn’t waste the shipping so added a color I don’t have to the order.

Cant wait to try it.

Your going to love the bonded mold release.

I'm using it on two new molds and the bullets just drop out when I open the molds. These are heavy bullets. I have a mold that cast really light hollow point bullets. It is bad to hold onto them when the mold is opened. I have been trying to get time to test it with that mold. I think the bonded is going to be the answer for three molds that I have problems getting the bullets to drop out.

[flybyjohn]

Just about all my molds are aluminum and I can’t say I’ve had problems with any of them dropping bullets. My problem is that the block tops will pick up a small piece of lead from time to time and if I don’t catch it right away it smears and cuts into the top of the mold block. I have been putting synthetic 2 stroke oil on the tops to keep it clean but that eventually leads to oil getting into the bullet area then it requires a complete clean to get smooth bullets again. Hopefully this will help prevent little bits of lead from adhering to the top of the blocks.

Not sure what my problem is but I can take a brand new aluminum mold, season it and then have the top scared with radial grooves from little chunks of lead between the blocks and spruce plate in one casting session. I even hone the bottom of the spruce plate and the tops of the molds right after I get them. Not sure if it is little hard chunks in my lead or just my process. Anyway, just hoping this mold release will help keep the lead from adhering to the tops of the blocks.

[HI-TEK]

Just about all my molds are aluminum and I can’t say I’ve had problems with any of them dropping bullets. My problem is that the block tops will pick up a small piece of lead from time to time and if I don’t catch it right away it smears and cuts into the top of the mold block. I have been putting synthetic 2 stroke oil on the tops to keep it clean but that eventually leads to oil getting into the bullet area then it requires a complete clean to get smooth bullets again. Hopefully this will help prevent little bits of lead from adhering to the top of the blocks.

Not sure what my problem is but I can take a brand new aluminum mold, season it and then have the top scared with radial grooves from little chunks of lead between the blocks and spruce plate in one casting session. I even hone the bottom of the spruce plate and the tops of the molds right after I get them. Not sure if it is little hard chunks in my lead or just my process. Anyway, just hoping this mold release will help keep the lead from adhering to the tops of the blocks.

How are you doing flybyjohn
What I can advise is, that Aluminum, will get softer when hot, The scratching on surfaces by solidified alloy may be causing what you are seeing.
Smearing of alloy, is due to semi set alloy that simply forms a very thin metal between Sprue cutter and mold. It is almost like "tinning", mainly due to alloy and mold being too hot.
It is hoped, that after applying the bonded release agent, you will minimize the adhesion of the spatter being collected on surfaces and also reduce or eliminate the Tinning effect.
You can apply the release agent to the Sprue cutter surfaces as well.
The other benefit of using the Mold release is that it will not contaminate any casts, and wont affect coating process later on.
As per normal, do not apply thick coats, it is not necessary.
I would welcome your findings, good or bad.

[barsik]

I had the same problem as flybyjohn with a buildup of lead on the bottom of the sprueplate and on top of the moldblocks. the problem is that when casting hot and quick the sprue is torn off the bullet, it isn't a clean cut and some bits of lead tend to stick in the sprue plate. some of it gets rubbed off when closing the sprue plate because the plate gets moved in the opposite direction to close for another pour. I bought a pair of thin leather gloves which are popular with the cowboy crowd and after the bullets have dropped free I flip the mold over and give the bottom of the sprue plate an extremely quick wipe across the holes to clean them and any lead that is on the bottom of the sprue plate with a little patch of leather cut from an old pair of gloves. I guess if one were really quick it could be done with only a gloved hand but I'm not that brave. BTW, I am using the HITEK mold release and it works very well at high temp but tends to stick at lower temp. one must find the sweet spot of melt temp and cadence and the bullets are well into the frosted zone but once in that narrow band of casting nirvana the bullets just fall out of the blocks.

[Ausglock]

I scrape the bottom of sprue plates with a razor blade to remove any lead smear.
then apply the mold release.

[HI-TEK]

BTW, I am using the HITEK mold release and it works very well at high temp but tends to stick at lower temp. one must find the sweet spot of melt temp and cadence and the bullets are well into the frosted zone but once in that narrow band of casting nirvana the bullets just fall out of the blocks.

Thank for your input.
Just curious about you mentioned, the Bonded Mold release not working at lower temperatures. Can you please elaborate, as I don't understand how casting conditions that is used, would be at lower temperatures.
What were the actual conditions where you had the bonding release agent not working adequately.
Please advise, thank you in advance.....

[barsik]

Thank for your input.
Just curious about you mentioned, the Bonded Mold release not working at lower temperatures. Can you please elaborate, as I don't understand how casting conditions that is used, would be at lower temperatures.
What were the actual conditions where you had the bonding release agent not working adequately.
Please advise, thank you in advance.....

sure, I'm using aluminum blocks and during the first couple of pours the bullets have a tendency to stick in the cavities for me. these bullets go back into the pot as they usually have flaws of some type or another. my melt is 5 parts wheelweight alloy and one part salvaged radiator solder which is a 70/30 lead tin mix. it does cast a bullet with sharply defined edges and I have no idea what the hardness is. after the blocks come up to temp the bullets start falling out. I've modified my technique to put a dab of copper coat on top of the sprue closing pin and putting the corner of the blocks into the melt to warm up. once the copper coat starts to smoke the temp is right to start casting and the bullets fall out on the first pour. do this only in a well ventilated area.

[HI-TEK]

sure, I'm using aluminum blocks and during the first couple of pours the bullets have a tendency to stick in the cavities for me. these bullets go back into the pot as they usually have flaws of some type or another. my melt is 5 parts wheel weight alloy and one part salvaged radiator solder which is a 70/30 lead tin mix. it does cast a bullet with sharply defined edges and I have no idea what the hardness is. after the blocks come up to temp the bullets start falling out. I've modified my technique to put a dab of copper coat on top of the sprue closing pin and putting the corner of the blocks into the melt to warm up. once the copper coat starts to smoke the temp is right to start casting and the bullets fall out on the first pour. do this only in a well ventilated area.

Thank you for details.
I think I may have and answer about the reason why colder casts don't drop, and why hotter casts drop from Molds
My rationale or suspicion is, that the colder alloy, shrinks less in the Mold after pouring (and is a tight fit) and hotter Molded alloy after cooling shrinks much more, so it falls out more easily.
In terms of using the bonding Mold release, you can may be try to apply a little more coating to internal surface of the Mold. My idea is, that you may get a slightly better release with colder Mold conditions.
The Bonded Mold release has no variations with release properties with being used at freezing temperatures to 800C. Applying extra film thickness of bonding Mold release agent, may help with freeing colder alloy casts by providing a non stick surface and a little more clearance between cast alloy and the Mold. The theory is that the cast should fall from the Mold, irrespective of temperature.
I am very interested with your findings.

[flybyjohn]

Well I haven’t got around to warming up the pot of lead yet but got one mold coated. I was thinking that if I heated the mold up to casting temps it would cure the mold release. I cooked them in the bullet oven at 400 for half an hour and let them cool to room temp in the oven. When I picked them up, the coating transferred to my fingers. I was kind of thinking it was supposed to bond to the mold. Maybe 400 wasn’t hot enough. I can try 500 or 550 degrees. Maybe I just coated too heavily. Going to try to cast some bullets tomorrow.

[DDriller]

Well I haven’t got around to warming up the pot of lead yet but got one mold coated. I was thinking that if I heated the mold up to casting temps it would cure the mold release. I cooked them in the bullet oven at 400 for half an hour and let them cool to room temp in the oven. When I picked them up, the coating transferred to my fingers. I was kind of thinking it was supposed to bond to the mold. Maybe 400 wasn’t hot enough. I can try 500 or 550 degrees. Maybe I just coated too heavily. Going to try to cast some bullets tomorrow.

Post # 14566 "The Bonding version requires quite amount of heat to get it to fully bond to metals.
The bonding does require temperatures about 500C for bonding to get to final cure conditions."

[HI-TEK]

Well I haven’t got around to warming up the pot of lead yet but got one mold coated. I was thinking that if I heated the mold up to casting temps it would cure the mold release. I cooked them in the bullet oven at 400 for half an hour and let them cool to room temp in the oven. When I picked them up, the coating transferred to my fingers. I was kind of thinking it was supposed to bond to the mold. Maybe 400 wasn’t hot enough. I can try 500 or 550 degrees. Maybe I just coated too heavily. Going to try to cast some bullets tomorrow.

flybyjohn
I suspect you are talking about 400 to 500 degrees F. The Bonded release agent requires some 900 degrees + F, (500 degrees Celsius) to help the setting and the bonding property.

The "bonding" property, is supposed to simply hold release agent onto surfaces of the Mold metals. The outside of the film surface, can transfer onto skin.
The transfer onto skin, is normal, but why did you wipe it with your finger?
How did your casting go using the Bonding release agent?

[flybyjohn]

HI-TEK, I was just checking to see if the mold release set/cured. I tried it again at 550 deg F. before I saw your last post so I see now why it comes off on my finger like graphite. I was kind of thinking it was supposed to cure like hitek coating, just at a higher temperature. I have not tried to pour lead into it yet as it has been a busy week with my anniversary and the kids coming home for a lot of auto repairs and maintenance. Hoping to heat up the lead tomorrow right after work. I kind of ran out of 9mm projectiles and need a few to shoot this coming weekend. I’ll let you know how it works for me.

[HI-TEK]

HI-TEK, I was just checking to see if the mold release set/cured. I tried it again at 550 deg F. before I saw your last post so I see now why it comes off on my finger like graphite. I was kind of thinking it was supposed to cure like hitek coating, just at a higher temperature. I have not tried to pour lead into it yet as it has been a busy week with my anniversary and the kids coming home for a lot of auto repairs and maintenance. Hoping to heat up the lead tomorrow right after work. I kind of ran out of 9mm projectiles and need a few to shoot this coming weekend. I’ll let you know how it works for me.

flybyjohn
first the product is not graphite but will stain skin, that can be washed off with soapy water with scrubbing.
Originally this product was made as a aerosol for coating Glass forming Molds. Glass went into the Molds at about 1200C, and the bonding release agent had to produce a mirror smooth finish on the Glass.
The product is now simply made for users, to chose how they use the product and is not dangerous goods as an aerosol, and can be transported via post, road and air freight.
In casting, the setting/bonding rate is very slow. It can be used to cast other metals as well.
melting point of metals where the bonding release agent will work is ;
Metals Fahrenheit (F)........Celsius (C)
Admiralty Brass 1650-1720 ...............900-940
Aluminium 1220............................660
Aluminum Alloys 865-1240.................463-671
Aluminum Bronze 1190-1215................600-655
Zinc .................................................. 450C

[Avenger442]

flybyjohn
I suspect you are talking about 400 to 500 degrees F. The Bonded release agent requires some 900 degrees + F, (500 degrees Celsius) to help the setting and the bonding property.

The "bonding" property, is supposed to simply hold release agent onto surfaces of the Mold metals. The outside of the film surface, can transfer onto skin.
The transfer onto skin, is normal, but why did you wipe it with your finger?
How did your casting go using the Bonding release agent?

So am I reading this right? It takes 900+ F to cure the bonded mold release?
If correct then what are people using to cure the mold release? My hot plate will do about 700+F. Best my oven will do is about 600F. I have a propane torch

[HI-TEK]

So am I reading this right? It takes 900+ F to cure the bonded mold release?
If correct then what are people using to cure the mold release? My hot plate will do about 700+F. Best my oven will do is about 600F. I have a propane torch

Avenger no need to do any thing to the release agent film after application.. The "bonding part", is there to hold the applied product onto surfaces.
That way it reduces the need for re-application rates.
It follows my rationale, use less is best. The bonding agent is not detrimentally affected by Casting temperatures used with Lead alloys.

As discovered by finger wiping, the excess on surface can be wiped off. The residue left on Mold will work.
Curing/bond can be improved but it is done in a furnace where temperatures are also controlled. For Lead alloy casting the product works well as is.
At casting conditions, it will take quite a while for bonding to cure and product will work as a release agent. The side benefit is, that coating can be mostly cleaned off, if required.
If it works, don't try to fix it......LOL

By the way, if you are thinking of heating an Aluminum Mold with a Propane torch, you may end up melting the Mold as Aluminum alloys start to melt ranges of 470C to 680C depending on alloy composition.

[Avenger442]

Joe

I know you didn't think I was going to torch my mold.

Thanks for the clarification. Paint on mold and use. Will set on mold at casting temperatures.

[HI-TEK]

Joe

I know you didn't think I was going to torch my mold.

Thanks for the clarification. Paint on mold and use. Will set on mold at casting temperatures.

Avenger
I did not think like that at all. I am aware that some people pre-heat Aluminum Molds and I was quoting melt temperatures of such metals so that if they do use any heating system to be careful. The Mold release is designed to work as is. Casting temperatures are perfect for bonding alloy release to work.

[Gremlin460]

Hello

[HI-TEK]

Hello

hello to you I have tried to contact you by phone

[flybyjohn]

Well, I cast some 9mm last night and the bonded mold release worked just fine. I will say that this was the very first casting session that all 6 projectiles of the first pour were 100% usable bullets. I am not sure if I just normally don't warm up my mold enough before I start or if the mold release was the cause but never have I ever had good bullets out of the first cast before. They usually have wrinkles for about 10 pours or more before they start getting better. Maybe the oil I used to use on the top of blocks and under sprue plate was a cause for this, not sure but no wrinkles with this bonded mold release. Bullet fell from mold as usual (easy). Out of 16lbs of bullets, I had only about 4 projectiles that I had to cull out because I had a incomplete cavity fill, my fault. That's 860 good ones out of 864 total, best I have ever had. I think I dropped more on the floor coating them then I had to cull out. Half way through, I noticed a little lead smear on the top of the blocks and I used a wood pencil to knock it off and it came off super easy. I usually have to really dig at it to dislodge them in the past. Not really thinking, I decided to reapply some more release to the hot sprue plate and ended up with a brush without bristles. Melted them right off. I guess cold mold or natural bristles from now on.

I have two piles of lead, clip on wheel weights and stick on weights with tin and antimony added. I didn't mark my ingot piles and don't remember what pile is what any more. They both have about the same ring when banged together. Anyway, I started with a pour temperature of 715 deg F ,my normal pour temp., and pouring was going just fine. I then turned down to 680 and pouring continued to work just fine. Again turned down to 650 and still great bullets and drop. I turned off the pot and continued to pour until mold didn't completely fill anymore and bullets still fell out of mold. So temperature didn't have any effect on sticking for me with the bonded mold release. I was able to cut the sprue after 28-30 seconds with the lower 650 deg F temperature where I was at nearly 40 seconds with 715 deg F.

I was quite surprised at how little it did take to coat the mold. I mixed up about 40 ml and I put it on super thick, multiple coats, I know, not what the directions say. I think I will be able to coat all the rest of my molds and not even be able to tell that I used any of what I mixed up.