simple Hi-Tek coating

[Tazza]

Looks like i'll be putting my hand up for some of your bonded release, i have just gotten hold of a few moulds that have pitting from bad storage, this may help with making them drop correctly again

[dikman]

My apologies if this offends some on here (for mentioning that "other" process ) but earlier I mentioned I was building my own powder coating gun and Tazza expressed an interest. Well, it's finished and appears to work, I experimented with some laser printer powder that I have and successfully coated an old piece of stainless steel that I had lying around. I didn't bake it because I don't know the temperature/time requirements for it.
And no, I'm not interested in coating boolits, I'm more than happy with Hi-Tek for that.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...45#post5190345

[Tazza]

My apologies if this offends some on here (for mentioning that "other" process ) but earlier I mentioned I was building my own powder coating gun and Tazza expressed an interest. Well, it's finished and appears to work, I experimented with some laser printer powder that I have and successfully coated an old piece of stainless steel that I had lying around. I didn't bake it because I don't know the temperature/time requirements for it.
And no, I'm not interested in coating boolits, I'm more than happy with Hi-Tek for that.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...45#post5190345

Nice work, Gotta love building things cheaply, i have been lucky and got parts to make my sizer for essentially nothing, it cost me a few universal joints, so about $50

[Ausglock]

My apologies if this offends some on here (for mentioning that "other" process ) but earlier I mentioned I was building my own powder coating gun and Tazza expressed an interest. Well, it's finished and appears to work, I experimented with some laser printer powder that I have and successfully coated an old piece of stainless steel that I had lying around. I didn't bake it because I don't know the temperature/time requirements for it.
And no, I'm not interested in coating boolits, I'm more than happy with Hi-Tek for that.
https://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...45#post5190345

Good job.

A mate here in town has a powdercoating Business.
Huge baking oven 30ft long, 12ft wide and 10ft high.
Same size coating tunnel.

[dikman]

That's........big!
I got the pointy end of the gun a bit close to the part I was coating and it arced across, scared the **** out of me!!!

[Tazza]

That's........big!
I got the pointy end of the gun a bit close to the part I was coating and it arced across, scared the **** out of me!!!

As long as you didn't get your paw too close to rattle your fillings, i think that would suck being hit with a few thousand volts.

Do you need to be that close to make the powder stick? and risk the arc?

[HI-TEK]

As long as you didn't get your paw too close to rattle your fillings, i think that would suck being hit with a few thousand volts.

Do you need to be that close to make the powder stick? and risk the arc?

I applaud individual innovative ideas and home made equipment.
However, I draw the line with me making electrical stuff, especially high voltage.
What is the voltage, that was home made machine?

My father was an electrician, and worked for many years in that trade, one day, he nearly got fried whilst cutting through a live 240 wire that he previously turned power off. Without his knowledge someone turned on the power, so they could use a drill. I saw the effects of a random accident. You don't get many second chances.

I have electric fences here, 7000 volts, to control livestock movement, it has belted me a few times over the years after accidentally touching it, I don't like the feeling of getting thrown backwards.

[Tazza]

I was lucky enough to learn about electricity when i was a kid, i'd like to think this gave me enough knowledge to respect it and not do stupid things that put me or anyone else in danger. I'm sure i do electrical work at home that technically i shouldn't, but i make sure it's all safe.

As for the high voltage generator he is using, i think are high voltage, high freequency devices, they aren't really dangerous as they have very low output current, doesn't mean they won't hurt like a sun of a...... Messing with high voltage and current like what is in a microwave oven is a recipe for disaster and potential death .

An electric fence energizer sure packs a punch, i have been bitten a fee times, none of them were fun at all....

[dikman]

I was a telecommunications technician for all my working life, starting with the PMG, and the training they gave us covered most things, including working with mains voltage. I have had an accidental jolt from 240v and also got a boot from inside a tv set - that hurt!! The fact I'm still here shows that the training was reasonably effective.
The high voltage module I used puts out 400Kv (max) but I'm running it at 4v input and current limited to 2.5 amps. It is designed for tasers. In the photos you will notice a switch in a piece of tube, this is a handheld switch that has to be held down to activate the high voltage. It's a minor nuisance but means I can cut off the voltage quickly if needed.

As for the arc, I just got a bit too close while trying to figure out the best way to use the thing.

[Avenger442]

I worked for the county government when I was younger. We helped assess property values. While looking at a property I needed to get to the barn. I was stepping over a low barbed wire fence and because of the high grass didn't see the cattle wire on the other side. Caught it right between the legs. Picture Energizer Bunny in reverse and a period of time lying on the ground.

[Tazza]

I worked for the county government when I was younger. We helped assess property values. While looking at a property I needed to get to the barn. I was stepping over a low barbed wire fence and because of the high grass didn't see the cattle wire on the other side. Caught it right between the legs. Picture Energizer Bunny in reverse and a period of time lying on the ground.

I'm sorry, but i laughed at that one.

Thankfully i haven't tried to BBQ the boys with electricity, but the times i was bitten by an electric fence on my hand/arm, it was not at all fun. I have yet to try and step over one.

The ones we had pulsed every second or two, so gives you a bit of time to jump out of the way, or do your best

[Avenger442]

Yeah. It's one of those funny stories now. But at the time.......

As long as we have this discussion here is another one. I had a friend who's Dad taught Electrical Engineering at the local trades school. He once worked as an Engineer for Goodyear at the plant there in town. He and several others were repairing some electrical service outside the plant. He was leaning against a tank when a line with 30,000 volts on it fell on the tank. I asked him why he was not killed. He said it was very low amps. Told me "it's not the volts that get you but the amps". He had an eye that kind of looked off to one side when he looked at you. I always wondered if maybe the volts might have had something to do with it.

Now back to coating. I have proven to myself at last what Joe has said all along. "Thin coats." Thick coated Hi Tek bullets do not perform as well as thin coated. Probably for the same reason we found back quite a few post ago when we tested PC against Hi Tek and found that they were a little less accurate. Not much in handgun but enough to measure. In rifle thick coated Hi Tek bullets vs thin coated at 200 yards is a group about twice as big. All other things equal.

[HI-TEK]

Yeah. It's one of those funny stories now. But at the time.......

As long as we have this discussion here is another one. I had a friend who's Dad taught Electrical Engineering at the local trades school. He once worked as an Engineer for Goodyear at the plant there in town. He and several others were repairing some electrical service outside the plant. He was leaning against a tank when a line with 30,000 volts on it fell on the tank. I asked him why he was not killed. He said it was very low amps. Told me "it's not the volts that get you but the amps". He had an eye that kind of looked off to one side when he looked at you. I always wondered if maybe the volts might have had something to do with it.

Now back to coating. I have proven to myself at last what Joe has said all along. "Thin coats." Thick coated Hi Tek bullets do not perform as well as thin coated. Probably for the same reason we found back quite a few post ago when we tested PC against Hi Tek and found that they were a little less accurate. Not much in handgun but enough to measure. In rifle thick coated Hi Tek bullets vs thin coated at 200 yards is a group about twice as big. All other things equal.

Thanks Avenger
The logic used was, that if coating is adequate to separate bore from alloy, this should provide most accuracy.
Rationale is, thicker coats, of whatever is used, has too much "give and compress" and projectile then has opportunity to bounce around inside the bore, resulting in loss off accuracy.
The main reason I had always suggested thin coatings is that the Hi-Tek has ability to stay put and perform during firing, even with very thin coats.
It really does not need thick coats at all to do the work required if the coating withstands the rigors of what is happening in the bore.
Thin coats eliminate the "bounce around" inside the bore.
I have seen, lots of pretty coatings, but all much too thick, (up to 12 and 14 thou thick), and suppliers/manufacturers of these seem to suggest that they work better, and be pretty as well. Unfortunately, these assumptions are not all quite correct. You have proven those facts your self.
With Powder coatings, they do work to an extent. However, as I had previously indicated, it is very difficult to get even and thin coats simply due to the makeup/composition of majority of these powders, and, the application cannot get very uniform coating thicknesses around the alloy.
Unfortunately these physical facts cannot be changed. I am not bagging powder coating, they do a service for some and who are happy with what they produce.
It is a similar situation with two pack type Epoxy type coatings.

[Avenger442]

When I first started coating I was concerned that a thin coat might cause leading in the barrel. And, as I have said before, tried to make a jacket out of Hi Tek. After I understood that I should not do that I began to coat thin. Also quite a few post back, I did a single coat on .308 and shot them at my usual +/-2600 fps. They weren't pretty bullets but didn't lead the barrel. Now I'm not going to recommend that everyone use just one coat but it did work in my gun with that bullet and load.

Typically I use three thin coats on rifle and two on handgun. And preference is the metallic coatings for the rifle. Especially liked the 1035 Gold liquid coat that was the first coating I used. But that's not to say I don't like others. I have used powders 1035 Black, Gun Metal, 500 Bronze, Burnt Orange (my name), Green, Yellow (which was more of a beige) and others and enjoyed shooting all of then due to no lead in the barrel.

I'd like to say best stuff I have ever used. But the truth is I really haven't experienced anything else enough to say that. Because of what I read about other lubricants I have never invested the time, equipment and effort in them. I found Hi Tek when I first started casting back in 2014 and have used it ever since. So I really have little experience with other coatings. Some with wax and grease lubes and some testing with PC is all. What I can say is this stuff works.

[HI-TEK]

When I first started coating I was concerned that a thin coat might cause leading in the barrel. And, as I have said before, tried to make a jacket out of Hi Tek. After I understood that I should not do that I began to coat thin. Also quite a few post back, I did a single coat on .308 and shot them at my usual +/-2600 fps. They weren't pretty bullets but didn't lead the barrel. Now I'm not going to recommend that everyone use just one coat but it did work in my gun with that bullet and load.

Typically I use three thin coats on rifle and two on handgun. And preference is the metallic coatings for the rifle. Especially liked the 1035 Gold liquid coat that was the first coating I used. But that's not to say I don't like others. I have used powders 1035 Black, Gun Metal, 500 Bronze, Burnt Orange (my name), Green, Yellow (which was more of a beige) and others and enjoyed shooting all of then due to no lead in the barrel.

I'd like to say best stuff I have ever used. But the truth is I really haven't experienced anything else enough to say that. Because of what I read about other lubricants I have never invested the time, equipment and effort in them. I found Hi Tek when I first started casting back in 2014 and have used it ever since. So I really have little experience with other coatings. Some with wax and grease lubes and some testing with PC is all. What I can say is this stuff works.

Hi Avenger,
You are now an old hand with coatings, and are comparing to Ausglock with how long each of you used these coatings. I think Ausglock may be an older hand with this stuff. For years, he used to buy from commercial caster until he decided to try his hand with the coating.
In Aus, many have used these coating for some 20+ years. Here, you virtually cant find casts that are lubricated with any other product.
It is understood, that the idea was to make a thick jacket. That is a normal reaction, with thinking that it will stop the Lead fouling.
Applying very thin coats, even thin ones, improves final cosmetic appearance, and the thickness applied, can be as thin as 1 thou of an inch.
Majority of products that are very successful, ends up between 1 and about 1.5 thou and some up to 2 thou. Thicker versions also work OK. In my way of thinking, just using the amount that works is ideal situation. Some like it thick and some like it thin. Some like the final appearance with multiple coats.
You obtain more even total coat with using multiple thin coats, as they work and they are cosmetically very appealing, and best of all, they work.
The reality is, for commercial guys, is to use enough coating to make a pleasing product, and also supply it fast, and final product needs to satisfy users needs.
For hobbyists who like to make their own, the pressure for volume output is not so important, and can make very nice practical products reasonably quickly.
What seems to be a side benefit that is mainly not considered, that using these coatings, also reduces the need to buy various cleaners and products, and corrosive chemicals to clean bores, and it saves money, further, reduces bore corrosion with trying to remove various deposits with these cleaners.

[Tazza]

Hi Avenger,
You are now an old hand with coatings, and are comparing to Ausglock with how long each of you used these coatings. I think Ausglock may be an older hand with this stuff. For years, he used to buy from commercial caster until he decided to try his hand with the coating.
In Aus, many have used these coating for some 20+ years. Here, you virtually cant find casts that are lubricated with any other product.
It is understood, that the idea was to make a thick jacket. That is a normal reaction, with thinking that it will stop the Lead fouling.
Applying very thin coats, even thin ones, improves final cosmetic appearance, and the thickness applied, can be as thin as 1 thou of an inch.
Majority of products that are very successful, ends up between 1 and about 1.5 thou and some up to 2 thou. Thicker versions also work OK. In my way of thinking, just using the amount that works is ideal situation. Some like it thick and some like it thin. Some like the final appearance with multiple coats.
You obtain more even total coat with using multiple thin coats, as they work and they are cosmetically very appealing, and best of all, they work.
The reality is, for commercial guys, is to use enough coating to make a pleasing product, and also supply it fast, and final product needs to satisfy users needs.
For hobbyists who like to make their own, the pressure for volume output is not so important, and can make very nice practical products reasonably quickly.
What seems to be a side benefit that is mainly not considered, that using these coatings, also reduces the need to buy various cleaners and products, and corrosive chemicals to clean bores, and it saves money, further, reduces bore corrosion with trying to remove various deposits with these cleaners.

I had some cast that were not the desired colour and were sized to .3575, i added another 3 coats to them as i knew exactly what the starting diameter was, measuring each coat to show how thick it was being applied. first coat measured .358, second coat: .3585 third and final coat was .3590, so each coat is only a quarter of a thou thick, so it adds half a thou to the diameter. Is that too much? i have no idea, all i know is with my alloy, that is softer than commercial casters like Trevor that runs 2-6-92, they don't lead up my barrels, even when doing 1400 or more FPS.

Another thing about coating vs lube is to keep customers and even casters from touching as much lead. After casting they need sizing then packaging, once coated, they are now sealed and no lead on the outside to be exposed to, for me, that's a plus as shooting we are exposed already, anything that cuts down on it is a good thing. I touch enough lead when in ingot form, once they are cast, i do my best to not touch anything til after coating just in case it causued bonding issues.

[dikman]

I just received some of the mold release stuff from Joe, both the 500+ and the bonded, to see how they would work with my problematic brass mold. I scrubbed the mold with brake cleaner and then acetone and applied the 500+ then cast 450 boolits. I still have some issues but overall I'm happy with the result. The mold is a custom made 4-cavity brass which throws 141 gn, 0.365" smooth-sided pills, crimp groove but no lube groove. One of the cavities has issues with the boolit sticking but this is a mechanical issue that might get worse if I try to fix it.
They definitely drop easier with the coating, even the problem cavity. My sprue mallet has a short, sharp nail sticking out of one side which I used to dislodge any sticking boolits, with the coating applied even if they stick they still release much easier when poked with the nail.
I also coated the sprue plate, top and bottom. I occasionally had a bit of lead smearing but don't get any with the coating plus the sprue puddle drops clean from the sprue plate. Bit of a bonus that.

Next step is to scrub the mold again and apply the bonded release and cast some more. I already have several thousand cast and coated but, hey, why not do some more?

My .44-40 mold (Lee ally) doesn't give much trouble but I might as well try the bonded on that too. Perhaps my fishing sinker molds too while I'm at it.

[Ausglock]

the Bonded schitz all over the 500+.
I'm throwing the 500+ in the bin.

[dikman]

Should make the rubbish slide out of the bin more easily?

[Ausglock]

Well...
I'm lovin the Bonded Mold release.
Treated and ran 125Conical molds today for 1 hr. 3000 bullets later and they were dropping like flys.
Then treated and changed to 156RNFP for 1 hr. another 3000 bullets and dropping free, no worries.
As a final go. treated and ran 125gn SWC for 1 hr. 3000 of these were dropping out easy as...

Great stuff.
But... don't use it on the top of the sprue plates as it slows down the solidification of the sprue.