simple Hi-Tek coating

[wlkjr]

I poured acetone on a paper towel and rubbed a bullet across it as in the picture. When I size about 500 my fingers get a green stain on them b

[HI-TEK]

Attachment 308696

OK had a look at the picture.
What this is suggesting to me that the coating is not 100% baked. Have you checked the product temperature when it is supposedly finished baking?
What was product temperature? Some wipe off is usually an indication of insufficient baking.
I am also wondering if your oven has some temperature control problems.
You seem to have the Dark Green V-2 product. When did you get this? I cannot remember when that colour was supplied to the US, but may be quite a while ago.

[wlkjr]

This some powder that I got years ago when I first started casting so I'm not sure exactly when I got it. I have an oven thermometer that reads 400 and I cook then at least 15 minutes. They shoot fine and there is no fouling in the barrel so I'm not too concerned.

[HI-TEK]

This some powder that I got years ago when I first started casting so I'm not sure exactly when I got it. I have an oven thermometer that reads 400 and I cook then at least 15 minutes. They shoot fine and there is no fouling in the barrel so I'm not too concerned.

OK, that explains a lot. I looked at records, and it seems that I sent some dark green V-2 to Donnie quite a while ago for supply to the US market.
It was used by a couple of casters, but some opted to use the Dark Green metallics, which was not as dark.
These dark green colours have caused some controversy as we have at least 3 shades of Dark Green, and products were purchased and supplied to US customers. Afterwards, who then complained that we changed colours, but in fact, wrong product was purchased and supplied to them, and, I only found out about complaints after the fact, so it became a difficult situation.
Please re-bake some longer, and see if the wipe off colour stops afterwards. The colour should go much darker with longer baking.
Thanks much

[Stephen Cohen]

I pop on the gas check after coating then size them. It’s no different than what your do for lubed lead.

Depending on the load/velocity you might not even need the gas check


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I agree with you about Gas checks not always needed, I drive the Lee 158 R/F naked at 2200fps in my 357 Maximum with outstanding accuracy and no leading, lubed cast in same loading do not shoot well at all, yet my 458 wm and a couple mated 45/70s do like gas checks for best accuracy. The interesting thing is that in all cases tested so fare groups are halved useing Hi-Tek. Regards Stephen

[ioon44]

OK, that explains a lot. I looked at records, and it seems that I sent some dark green V-2 to Donnie quite a while ago for supply to the US market.
It was used by a couple of casters, but some opted to use the Dark Green metallics, which was not as dark.
These dark green colours have caused some controversy as we have at least 3 shades of Dark Green, and products were purchased and supplied to US customers. Afterwards, who then complained that we changed colours, but in fact, wrong product was purchased and supplied to them, and, I only found out about complaints after the fact, so it became a difficult situation.
Please re-bake some longer, and see if the wipe off colour stops afterwards. The colour should go much darker with longer baking.
Thanks much

This is not a complaint but when using Kryptonite Green, I get color on my fingers when sizing and loading. I run my oven on the hot side 200 C to 210C and even if the green gets darker, I still get it on my fingers.

I use Candy Apple Red and Gold 1035 baked at the same temperature without any getting on my fingers.

I have not had any problems with the 3 colors in any of the guns I shoot, barrels are always clean.

All really good products keep up the good work and Happy New Year.

[wlkjr]

This is not a complaint but when using Kryptonite Green, I get color on my fingers when sizing and loading. I run my oven on the hot side 200 C to 210C and even if the green gets darker, I still get it on my fingers.

I use Candy Apple Red and Gold 1035 baked at the same temperature without any getting on my fingers.

I have not had any problems with the 3 colors in any of the guns I shoot, barrels are always clean.

All really good products keep up the good work and Happy New Year.

All the greens seem to give me the most trouble. K-15 Black is the one that works best for me.

[HI-TEK]

This is not a complaint but when using Kryptonite Green, I get color on my fingers when sizing and loading. I run my oven on the hot side 200 C to 210C and even if the green gets darker, I still get it on my fingers.

I use Candy Apple Red and Gold 1035 baked at the same temperature without any getting on my fingers.

I have not had any problems with the 3 colors in any of the guns I shoot, barrels are always clean.

All really good products keep up the good work and Happy New Year.

Thank you for heads up.
Just a quick couple of questions.... is solvent test removing any colour after last bake, and, is sizing and loading process is where there is removal of colour that ends up on fingers?
Please advise

[wlkjr]

Thank you for heads up.
Just a quick couple of questions.... is solvent test removing any colour after last bake, and, is sizing and loading process is where there is removal of colour that ends up on fingers?
Please advise

Nothing major, mostly when sizing several hundred at a time. Just a slight faint tint on the fingers. Rub test does not rub a bare spot. I will try to do more testing later when I cast more.

[HI-TEK]

Nothing major, mostly when sizing several hundred at a time. Just a slight faint tint on the fingers. Rub test does not rub a bare spot. I will try to do more testing later when I cast more.

OK, thank you for quick reply.
The reason for my silly questions are, that if no colour comes off with solvent test, I suspect that sizing process may be removing very fine blisters of baked coating. These very fine blisters may not be easily seen . Blisters are mainly caused by coating not adequately being dried before it is baked. When such coated cast goes into the oven, the moisture trapped in film becomes water vapor very quickly before coating has cured. During heat curing, these fine bubbles trapped in the baked film, can be simply shave off, and you are getting that dust during sizing process.
Looking forward to your update.

[ioon44]

Thank you for heads up.
Just a quick couple of questions.... is solvent test removing any colour after last bake, and, is sizing and loading process is where there is removal of colour that ends up on fingers?
Please advise

I just done the solvent test (30 seconds in Acetone) with two 140gr 9mm with Kryptonite Green and did not get any rub off, however these had already been sized and I did get color on my fingers when sizing these.

I properly go to extremes with my dying of the first coat (120deg F or more for 20 to 30 minutes) and never have any problems with the smash or wipe test.

A little bit of color on my fingers for me is not a problem, I always wash my hands after handling any reloading components.

[HI-TEK]

I just done the solvent test (30 seconds in Acetone) with two 140gr 9mm with Kryptonite Green and did not get any rub off, however these had already been sized and I did get color on my fingers when sizing these.

I properly go to extremes with my dying of the first coat (120deg F or more for 20 to 30 minutes) and never have any problems with the smash or wipe test.

A little bit of color on my fingers for me is not a problem, I always wash my hands after handling any reloading components.

Thank you for quick reply. Because you are not getting colour wipe off with solvent test, you have cured the coatings adequately.
It seems to confirm, that there may be some mechanical reason why you get some colour removal during sizing. I continue to suspect possibility of very fine bubbles, and other possibility is may be a sharp edge somewhere that may be removing any minute irregular surfaces. The "colour" being removed, I expect to be fully cured coating, and dust that is ending up on your hands. If the rest of the coating is intact, and it is working without causing any deposits in the bore, it should be fine.
Just a quick question and another thought, are you using a lubesizer? They have been known to cause shaving type problems, with internal lube groove edges.

[wlkjr]

The staining I get on my fingers is before dropping into the sizer. My sizer is a Lee. I use Aqualube 5000 sprayed into a plastic bag with about 300 bullets and rolled around. I then pour them out onto a wire tray to dry. It really doesn't cause me any problems. Next time I size some I will take a picture of my fingers after sizing.

[HI-TEK]

The staining I get on my fingers is before dropping into the sizer. My sizer is a Lee. I use Aqualube 5000 sprayed into a plastic bag with about 300 bullets and rolled around. I then pour them out onto a wire tray to dry. It really doesn't cause me any problems. Next time I size some I will take a picture of my fingers after sizing.

Thank you for details. Looking forward to pictures. This seems a real puzzle.
Aqualube should also separate coating from skin, and is a dry film lubricant release agent. I am at this stage stumped.
It is difficult to understand why you are getting transfer of any colour when there is no colour coming off with solvent wipe test.

Local commercial manufacturer here uses the Kryptonite producing many thousands, no problems like what you are finding at all.
You certainly have a curly one here. I hope that we can identify what is going on.

[ioon44]

Thank you for quick reply. Because you are not getting colour wipe off with solvent test, you have cured the coatings adequately.
It seems to confirm, that there may be some mechanical reason why you get some colour removal during sizing. I continue to suspect possibility of very fine bubbles, and other possibility is may be a sharp edge somewhere that may be removing any minute irregular surfaces. The "colour" being removed, I expect to be fully cured coating, and dust that is ending up on your hands. If the rest of the coating is intact, and it is working without causing any deposits in the bore, it should be fine.
Just a quick question and another thought, are you using a lubesizer? They have been known to cause shaving type problems, with internal lube groove edges.

I use an old Star sizer with the lube pump arm removed and short NOE sizer dies, I am only sizing down about .002" so I don't use any lube for sizing.

One thought, I use the 20/100 mix and use a heavy coat (some bullets stick together), would a 20/150 mix yield a different result?

[HI-TEK]

I use an old Star sizer with the lube pump arm removed and short NOE sizer dies, I am only sizing down about .002" so I don't use any lube for sizing.

One thought, I use the 20/100 mix and use a heavy coat (some bullets stick together), would a 20/150 mix yield a different result?

Now things are becoming more clear. This may be the reason for what is happening with rough finishes sticking of casts together, and fine crumbs coming onto your hands.
Let me go through step my step.
1. The lube sizer has internal edges. As coated cast goes through, it hydraulically deforms to adopt shape of sizing die. When it reaches lube area, there may be a springs back, (expands) into the lube groove open area and this phenomenon can cause shaving off the cured coating. If there is no shaving done at this area, that is OK. However, if you are getting dust coming off, then dust will build up in load areas.
2. 20gram to 100 ml may be too strong if you are applying too much of this mixture, which seem to be the case due to what you described.
Mixture usage is usually about 6mls of well mixed coating mix to about 250 casts. Shake coat quickly and dump to dry before they become dull and sticky sounding.
Usually it takes about 10-15 seconds of shake coating to get to where you need.
Try using two coats, (drying and baking between coats) using 20 grams to 150 mls Acetone mixture, and use 6mls of this mixture, to 250 casts.
Then dry well and bake. Compare results afterwards.
Two finished coats should end up about 1.5 to 1.8 thou thick. In reality, that is all that is required to separate bore and alloy.
Please let us know how these suggestions end up afterwards.

[ioon44]

Now things are becoming more clear. This may be the reason for what is happening with rough finishes sticking of casts together, and fine crumbs coming onto your hands.
Let me go through step my step.
1. The lube sizer has internal edges. As coated cast goes through, it hydraulically deforms to adopt shape of sizing die. When it reaches lube area, there may be a springs back, (expands) into the lube groove open area and this phenomenon can cause shaving off the cured coating. If there is no shaving done at this area, that is OK. However, if you are getting dust coming off, then dust will build up in load areas.
2. 20gram to 100 ml may be too strong if you are applying too much of this mixture, which seem to be the case due to what you described.
Mixture usage is usually about 6mls of well mixed coating mix to about 250 casts. Shake coat quickly and dump to dry before they become dull and sticky sounding.
Usually it takes about 10-15 seconds of shake coating to get to where you need.
Try using two coats, (drying and baking between coats) using 20 grams to 150 mls Acetone mixture, and use 6mls of this mixture, to 250 casts.
Then dry well and bake. Compare results afterwards.
Two finished coats should end up about 1.5 to 6mls of this mixture, to 250 casts. 6mls of this mixture, to 250 casts.. In reality, that is all that is required to separate bore and alloy.
Please let us know how these suggestions end up afterwards.

1. The NOE sizer dies I use don't have any internal edges, just smooth internal surfaces. I am sure there is some spring back when the bullet leaves the die. The color is on my fingers before the bullets go in the size die.

2. I do use two coats of the 20gram to 100 ml mix and try to stay close to the 6mls of mixture to 250 casts.
I know sometimes the bullets don't get dumped soon enough and will have some rough texture, so this could be part of the color rubbing off on my fingers.
As near as I can tell my coating is around 1.8 thou thick.

I just done 2,000 of the 9mm 140gr so I won't need to cast any more for several months.
The coatings perform great with all the guns I use, so a little color on my fingers is not an issue for me, just odd that the green does it when other colors don't.

[Ausglock]

I only use Kryptonite green and after running 30,000 through the Magma Sizemaster, there is a slight green tinge on the collator plate in the bullet feeder. The collator plate in the MA systems feeder is alloy and has sharp edges.
The home made sizer used a Mr. bullet feeder to supply bullets to the sizer. after a few 1000, the collator plat also has a slight green tinge to it.
But all bullets give Zero wipe off before and after sizing.

I feel it is excess pigment, so no big deal. I use the HITEK sizing lube for all sizing...

[Walstr]

I agree with you about Gas checks not always needed, I drive the Lee 158 R/F naked at 2200fps in my 357 Maximum with outstanding accuracy and no leading, lubed cast in same loading do not shoot well at all, yet my 458 wm and a couple mated 45/70s do like gas checks for best accuracy. The interesting thing is that in all cases tested so fare groups are halved useing Hi-Tek. Regards Stephen

Howdy S.C.
Interesting experience re: accuracy of PC vs Hi-Tek. I've not been successful trying PC'g, as the 'air quenched', alcohol cleaned boolits jes don't let powder to stick uniformly.

Is the application of Hi-Tek better in regards to uniform coating? I've read their instructions & it sounds very similar to PC'g?!? Thanks. Wally

[Ausglock]

Walstr.
Hitek came before PC.
PC used a bastardized application of the HiTEK process.

I find Hitek easy to apply and process.

I normally to runs of between 5000 to 30,000 bullets at a time.

HItek is also far cleaner to use than PC