simple Hi-Tek coating

[flybyjohn]

In my oven, the side with the controls has the wires. The other side has a hard non insulated wire connecting the elements to each other so no wires to melt the insulation off. Since I got rid of everything but the on off switch on the control side ( the PID is in a separate box) and only insulated one inch thick, the wires are still in open air and can keep cool ( I hope). I will have to test a batch of bullets to see how it goes. Not sure what the longevity of the oven will be now that it is all insulated but time will tell.

[Stephen Cohen]

flybyjohn, You may well be right and I am over thinking things, I guess if it works don't fix it. We can't deny the results Ausglock gets so I am inclined to agree with him as well. Regards Stephen

[Arlin]

Gentlemen:

I'm having an issue sizing Hy-Tec coated bullets. I ran several batches last winter with no problems resizing. Today bullets get stuck in Star die. I cast 356 9mm, with two coats of Hy-Tec. Let dry approximately 15 min then bake in toaster oven @400 degrees (12 min), take out, let cool then recoat again. Rebake for 12 more minutes, let cool then try to size. What do you think is happening?

[Ausglock]

Gentlemen:

I'm having an issue sizing Hy-Tec coated bullets. I ran several batches last winter with no problems resizing. Today bullets get stuck in Star die. I cast 356 9mm, with two coats of Hy-Tec. Let dry approximately 15 min then bake in toaster oven @400 degrees (12 min), take out, let cool then recoat again. Rebake for 12 more minutes, let cool then try to size. What do you think is happening?

Is the coating coming off the bullets or are they just really hard to pass through the sizer die?
If hard to size only, get some Aqualube sizing lube.

[Hi-Performance Bullet Coatings]

Aqualube will certainly help your sizing efforts. Are you trying to push two bullets thru your sizing die? Magma makes a relieved die and a short die, both should allow a bullet to pass thru on a single stroke of the handle. Lathesmith here the forum also makes a short die. The leverage on a star machine is not all that great. The short die and aqualube are your friend.

[Ausglock]

Lathesmith's short dies are brilliant. Only sizer dies I use.
Run them in the Magma Size master.

[ioon44]

I had Lathesmith build me a punch long enough to push a bullet all the way through a regular die and the Aqualube makes it easy , this was a lot cheaper than buying more dies.
If I was going buy another die I would buy the short die.

[flybyjohn]

Well good news, My insulated oven will get up to 655 degrees in less than 20 minutes. I use the same pid box for the oven as I do for the smelting pot and forgot to hit the set button after changing it to 185 deg. So in 20 minutes I went out in the garage and found the oven heated up to 655 deg. Talk about a self cleaning oven. Pretty good for a toaster oven. Well it still works and it doesn't look like anything burnt out. The convection fan is still chugging along and after a little oil, it purrs like a kitten. Good thing the bullets were not in there. I would have had a mess.

[flybyjohn]

https://i.imgur.com/OxgVYFr.jpg

Tested two batches of bullets today. I am having problems with the zombie green. I got real good results last year but this year it seams to be clumping. The candy apple red turned out good.

The picture shows the red and clumpy green from today and the smooth green from last year.

The oven heats the bullets very quick and the green passes the wipe and smash test after 9 minutes with 4.25 lbs of bullets. The red gets brown at 9 minutes so I dropped it to 7 minutes and it passes wipe and smash test. I have the pid set at 393 deg f and after loading room temperature bullets it drops to 345 and is back to 403deg in 3 minutes measuring air temp 0.5 inches below the bullet tray. From 403 it slowly makes its way to 398 by the time I pull the tray out in 7 to 9 minutes.

So several things I need to figure out. Should I lower the oven temp so I can get a whole 10-12 minutes bake time or if the bullets pass the tests is the temp ok? Also why is the zombie green clumping and not green? I see clumping from the second coat on and it gets worse with every coat. The first coat looks pretty smooth coming out of the oven. Maybe my trays are causing it.

The mix I used today was 3 hour old 10 grams powder to 55 ml acetone. Shaken well during the three hour wait. 1st coat was 3.5 ml mix shaken during syringe draw to 4.25 lbs bullets. Second to 4th coat was 4.5 then 5ml mix to 4.25 lb bullets.

Well any help or pointers would be appreciated. I had good results last year, just don’t know what’s going on this year.

[Ausglock]

Even the red ones are rough surface. I'd say swirling too long.............
Try dumping them wet...

[flybyjohn]

I am dumping them at 7-10 seconds after putting the mix in the container. It is only 58 deg f in my garage so it is not overly hot. There is mix that is pouring out with the bullets that drips onto the floor when I dump so I think they are wet enough when dumped. I think that when I shake them on the tray to separate them right after dumping, the chunks appear. Maybe I need a bigger dump tray so the bullets can stay right where they land until dry. Right now I am dumping about 4-4.5lbs of bullets onto a 8"x10" hardware cloth tray. I will try a larger dump screen and see if I can get them to dump separated more and not have to shake them apart until they dry.

Also, some of the bullets that stick together during baking, is it normal for them to pull a little chunk of Hitek off of one bullet when you pull them apart. I am not really concerned about it as it is just a little speck of lead showing but just wanted to make sure it was not a bonding issue.

[HI-TEK]

I am dumping them at 7-10 seconds after putting the mix in the container. It is only 58 deg f in my garage so it is not overly hot. There is mix that is pouring out with the bullets that drips onto the floor when I dump so I think they are wet enough when dumped. I think that when I shake them on the tray to separate them right after dumping, the chunks appear. Maybe I need a bigger dump tray so the bullets can stay right where they land until dry. Right now I am dumping about 4-4.5lbs of bullets onto a 8"x10" hardware cloth tray. I will try a larger dump screen and see if I can get them to dump separated more and not have to shake them apart until they dry.

Also, some of the bullets that stick together during baking, is it normal for them to pull a little chunk of Hitek off of one bullet when you pull them apart. I am not really concerned about it as it is just a little speck of lead showing but just wanted to make sure it was not a bonding issue.

From what you are describing, you seem to be using far too much coating mixture. If after shake coating, you have liquid remaining which drips off, there seems an excess coating mix present.
Coating in such cold area at 58F will slow down solvent drying off. The other indicator for over use of coating, is your description of coated cast sticking together. At no stage coated cast should stick together unless you have too much coating mixture or you are using a brew that is far too strong.
Please have a look at your situation and advise.

[flybyjohn]

Solution is 10 grams coating to 55 ml of acetone. First coat is 3.5 ml of solution to 4.25 lbs of bullets for this batch. I upped it to 4.5 ml for the second coat and 4.5 to 5 ml for third and forth coat. The red didn’t really get a solid color until the 4th coat. It was splotchy up until then. The zombie green started clumping on the second coat, and always was golden not green.

The same powder last year was green and turned out great. Only thing I did between now and then is shook op the powder in the canister before mixing it.

[Ausglock]

I'd also say too much solution per lot.

[HI-TEK]

[QUOTE=flybyjohn;4902583] The zombie green started clumping on the second coat, and always was golden not green.

Just wanted a clarification on your above comment. After first coat was done , dried, what was next thing you did?
From above, with applying second coat, where it started to clump, there are two possibilities why clumping has happened.
1. First coat was not baked before applying second coat.
2. First coat was not baked enough after first coat, and applying a second coat, simply acted like a paint stripper, which caused lumpy finish. Until each coat is fully cured, solvents or re-coating will start to re-dissolve the previous coating.
Please give us some more details, so we can identify causes better.

[Gremlin460]

1. Gun shops are open again tommorow!!
2.I bought another bobcat.
3.Picked up 3 20L drums of automotive WW.
4.Did I say I bought another bobcat?

Cheers.. be safe.

[Ausglock]

1. Gun shops are open again tommorow!!
2.I bought another bobcat.
3.Picked up 3 20L drums of automotive WW.
4.Did I say I bought another bobcat?


Cheers.. be safe.

Always wanted a Bobcat with a 4 in 1.

[HI-TEK]

Always wanted a Bobcat with a 4 in 1.

I have one, a Toyota with 4 way bucket. I got well and truly scammed by seller.
It looked like new, low hours on clock, no oil leaks every thing seemed to work OK, and, after about 5-6 hours of work, I noticed that bucket seemed to swing from side to side excessively.
Close examination revealed, that the mongrel who I purchased the machine from, bogged up all the stress cracks, and painted over all of it. With small amount of work, the bog all cracked and revealed the problems.
I spent many hours welding. Then about 12 hours work, the bucket after being raised, would not lower down to ground level. I found out from a Toyota mechanic, that seller bodgied up one Hydraulic cylinder, and oil was bypassing oil seals at opposing forces to the other side, so bucket would not lower down.
Mate, I don't normally curse, but you could have heard me a mile away. Spent quite a few buck, and purchased new cylinders.. Then, high pressure fuel line cracked spraying diesel over engine. Then oil leaks developed with couplings. Radiator leaked and had to be replaced, then exhaust broke as muffler was fixed hard, as previous owner removed all flexible joints from exhaust pipe.
I will never ever buy a second hand machine. I cant afford a new one, but I also need one badly.
My choice now would be a backhoe, with a 4 way bucket. (new one).

[flybyjohn]

[QUOTE=HI-TEK;4902953]

The zombie green started clumping on the second coat, and always was golden not green.

Just wanted a clarification on your above comment. After first coat was done , dried, what was next thing you did?
From above, with applying second coat, where it started to clump, there are two possibilities why clumping has happened.
1. First coat was not baked before applying second coat.
2. First coat was not baked enough after first coat, and applying a second coat, simply acted like a paint stripper, which caused lumpy finish. Until each coat is fully cured, solvents or re-coating will start to re-dissolve the previous coating.
Please give us some more details, so we can identify causes better.

Ok, after 1st coat was dried, it went into a preheated, well insulated, modified convection oven set with PID at 393 deg F. The oven fell to 345 deg F in the first 30 seconds The oven then raised to 402 deg F air temperature measured 1/2" below the bullet tray at the 3 minute mark from placing them into the oven. The oven air temperature slowly dropped from this point to where it hit about 395 deg F by the 10 minute mark. I had the timer set for 12 minutes but after 10 minutes, the bullets were starting to turn gold to brown. So I pulled them out of the oven at the 10 minute mark. I let cool on a rack and then tried the wipe test and nothing wiped off the bullet. I even soaked one bullet in a cup of acetone and then wiped it and it was still coated. I then placed one on a white piece of paper and smashed it with a hammer. It passed the smash test. I then dumped them into my mix bucket and added 4.5 ml of shaken well solution drawn from solution container with a syringe, and began shaking/ swirlying, at about 8-10 seconds, I dumped them onto a hardware cloth (1/4" metal screen) 8"x10" tray. They were definitely wet. They all landed in a pile so I picked up the screen and shook it to separate them and as they rolled, they seam to pick up rough spots. My fingers from the bottom of the tray did get a little green. I then placed them on top of the oven for 30 minutes to dry again before repeating the above process for two more times.

I use the same galvanized steel hardware cloth screens for the cooking and dumping, so a possibility that might be happening is after cooking, when I dump them into the mixing container from the cooking screen, cooked coating might be chipping off the screens and into the coating bucket. The screens do flex some as I dump the bullet into the coating bucket. Crusties in the mixing container would definitely adhere to the bullets during the shake. The bullets hitting each other during the shake would definitely knock more crusties off the bullets into the wet mix compounding the chunks. Not sure if this is happening but I will investigate.

I need to cast a few more bullets to try another batch today and see if I can get different results.

[smlekid]

I wash out my mixing container between coatings I use a cut in half aluminium can to recycle my acetone I use to clean out the mixing container
If I understand what your saying by not cleaning your swirling bucket your coating (which is still in the bucket from previous coats) is getting reintroduced when you coat a batch this will both thicken your coating and cause it to flash off faster giving you the finish your boolits show
I also clean off my trays with a rag soaked in acetone