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Thread: simple Hi-Tek coating

  1. #14221
    Boolit Master dikman's Avatar
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    Yeah, likewise, I've got a custom brass mold that gives me trouble, maybe this will help.

  2. #14222
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
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    It just occured to me to ask, this bonding mold release will work on brass, too?
    While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens. So it is best I ask him what, how and when before I start..

  3. #14223
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    I really cannot answer that question. I have never had opportunity to test it.

  4. #14224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger442 View Post
    It just occured to me to ask, this bonding mold release will work on brass, too?
    I don't have any Brass molds.
    Only Ally and iron.
    Testing it on iron mold sometime this week.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  5. #14225
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    Most of my molds are aluminum. I like the weight better than the steel and brass. But I do have some steel and brass. If it will not work well on them it's no big deal.

    Thanks to you guys for advancements in casting with continued R&D and testing. I think all of us that use Hi Tek appreciate your work.
    While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens. So it is best I ask him what, how and when before I start..

  6. #14226
    Boolit Master dikman's Avatar
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    Joe is sending me some to try on my brass mold, I'll let you know if it makes any difference.

  7. #14227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger442 View Post
    Most of my molds are aluminum. I like the weight better than the steel and brass. But I do have some steel and brass. If it will not work well on them it's no big deal.

    Thanks to you guys for advancements in casting with continued R&D and testing. I think all of us that use Hi Tek appreciate your work.

    Thanks Avenger
    When applying the solution of the bonded coating version of the 500+, painted onto Brass or other metals, we wont know how well the bonding agent will stick onto various metals. In theory, it should work OK, as the bonded version of the 500+ will be like a paint.

    The brush on dry powdered 500+ , should work OK, as it simply is a thin film of powder that is spread over the surface and it should cling to surfaces.

    Again, for end use, the idea of having a bonded version will probably suit and be favored for auto casters, as it will reduce the need for re-application during production, and should last longer as a release agent, as the material should stay put. Even excessive heat will not damage the powdered or bonded versions.

    Main thing to remember is, use very sparingly, as that is all that is required to make it both to work and release casts even from corroded and worn molds.
    Other benefits are that the two grades of the 500+ is non contaminating, no sticky or liquid mess coating casts. The casts will be clean and dry, and very economical to use.
    Last edited by HI-TEK; 05-11-2021 at 04:17 AM.

  8. #14228
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    Main thing to remember is, use very sparingly, as that is all that is required to make it both to work and release casts even from corroded and worn molds.
    Other benefits are that the two grades of the 500+ is non contaminating, no sticky or liquid mess coating casts. The casts will be clean and dry, and very economical to use.
    Joe
    Your the only manufacturer I know that tells the customer to use very small amounts of his product.

    I have some of the spray on 500 powder mold release that works well. But you are right, something that stays on the mold longer as in a bonded coat would be better. I usually don't have very long casting sessions because I only cast for myself. But I have had to reapply the powder when doing a lot of bullets.

    I haven't had as much success with the spray sizing lube Aqualube. A permanently bonded coating for sizing dies would be nice. I usually polish my Lee dies if I'm having a problem and use the sizing lube which does help some.
    While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens. So it is best I ask him what, how and when before I start..

  9. #14229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger442 View Post
    Joe
    Your the only manufacturer I know that tells the customer to use very small amounts of his product.

    I have some of the spray on 500 powder mold release that works well. But you are right, something that stays on the mold longer as in a bonded coat would be better. I usually don't have very long casting sessions because I only cast for myself. But I have had to reapply the powder when doing a lot of bullets.

    I haven't had as much success with the spray sizing lube Aqualube. A permanently bonded coating for sizing dies would be nice. I usually polish my Lee dies if I'm having a problem and use the sizing lube which does help some.

    Thanks Avenger

    We have a saying, "waste not want not". If the products work with using at minimum rates, why waste it with over use. It simply wont work any better.

    With Aqualube, can you please advise what you use or purchased, and how do you prepare and or apply it to coat cast that needs sizing?

    Currently, we have a set up equipment, where we can measure the actual loads required to push a cast through die. We can measure the actual load, and load reduction after cast is coated, and coated and Aqualubed.
    This will provide the actual load reduction with sizing, that results by using the Aqualube.
    I hope to publish a table of test results, with various calibers, and possibly a video of the actual process.

    Initial tests with setting up the equipment looked great.
    Last edited by HI-TEK; 05-12-2021 at 05:34 AM.

  10. #14230
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    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    Thanks Avenger

    We have a saying, "waste not want not". If the products work with using at minimum rates, why waste it with over use. It simply wont work any better.

    With Aqualube, can you please advise what you use or purchased, and how do you prepare and or apply it, before you use it to coat cast that needs sizing?

    Currently, we have a set up equipment, where we can measure the actual loads required to push a cast through die. We can measure the actual load, and load reduction after cast is coated, and coated and Aqualubed.
    This will provide the actual load reduction with sizing, that results by using the Aqualube.
    I hope to publish a table of test results, with various calibers, and possibly a video of the actual process.

    Initial tests with setting up the equipment looked great.
    Looking forward to seeing how this works out, having actual numbers behind you for proof is what you want.

  11. #14231
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    With Aqualube, can you please advise what you use or purchased, and how do you prepare and or apply it to coat cast that needs sizing?
    Before I answer this I just want to say that my lack of success may be due to not really using it that much and my expectation of what the product was going to do. I bought it specifically for a bullet that I was sizing down from.312 to .309. After it was coated the bullet was slick but I was having a hard time forcing it through the die. Aqualube didn't reduce the effort as much as I had hopped. I had also tried it with another bullet I was sizing down, but don't remember the size. I remember that one going better. So two times is not really a good go at it.

    I bought Aqualube 5000 concentrate. It was mixed per instructions with isopropyl alcohol. Sprayed onto the bullets then tumbled them around a bit and sprayed again and tumbled. Let dry. Then sized.

    I may have just wanted too much. The sizing genie just didn't slide it through the die with no effort at all.
    While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens. So it is best I ask him what, how and when before I start..

  12. #14232
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avenger442 View Post
    Before I answer this I just want to say that my lack of success may be due to not really using it that much and my expectation of what the product was going to do. I bought it specifically for a bullet that I was sizing down from.312 to .309. That is quite a size reduction. No wonder you had difficulty with it

    After it was coated the bullet was slick but I was having a hard time forcing it through the die. Aqualube didn't reduce the effort as much as I had hopped.
    Your results with this may have been the use of the Aqualube in wrong mix ratio

    I had also tried it with another bullet I was sizing down, but don't remember the size. I remember that one going better. So two times is not really a good go at it.

    I bought Aqualube 5000 concentrate. It was mixed per instructions with isopropyl alcohol. Please advise ratio of Aqualube to denatured Alcohol.
    Sprayed onto the bullets then tumbled them around a bit and sprayed again and tumbled. Let dry. Then sized.
    That is OK as long as what you applied left adequate lube when dry.

    Avenger
    I will reply against your details in red .
    If you ask Alan Esterly, he will provide you with updated mixing ratios using the Aqualube concentrates.
    This is why we are doing load reduction tests to quantify the actual loads required, with and without using Aqualube to push it through. Hopefully we will get meaningful results that confirms lubricity of the Aqualube and what load reductions are achieved by using it.


  13. #14233
    Boolit Master


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    Aqua-Lube works. I can tell the difference using my Star.

    I had some 9mm boolits that had been sitting around for well over a year before being sized.

    Those things were HARD. I could barely push one through a .357 sizing die. I sprayed the Aqua-Lube on them and they went though MUCH easier. If I had to guess I'd say a better than 50% less sizing effort.
    NRA Benefactor.

  14. #14234
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    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    That is OK as long as what you applied left adequate lube when dry.

    Avenger
    I will reply against your details in red .
    If you ask Alan Esterly, he will provide you with updated mixing ratios using the Aqualube concentrates.
    This is why we are doing load reduction tests to quantify the actual loads required, with and without using Aqualube to push it through. Hopefully we will get meaningful results that confirms lubricity of the Aqualube and what load reductions are achieved by using it.

    Why you yelling????
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  15. #14235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    Why you yelling????


    I just don't know how to use the edit system. I must have pressed wrong settings.
    It seemed OK, but afterward obviously it was not ....

  16. #14236
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HI-TEK View Post
    I just don't know how to use the edit system. I must have pressed wrong settings.
    It seemed OK, but afterward obviously it was not ....
    Don't worry Joe. No offense taken. I didn't even recognize it as yelling.

    As to mixing, I'm looking for my instruction sheet which I followed to mix it. Recently rearrange a bunch of stuff and will have to find it.

    Paint on non bonding mold release sample arrived from Alan and is mixed. Planning to cast some 9mm bullets today. Will try to remember to report back.
    While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens. So it is best I ask him what, how and when before I start..

  17. #14237
    Boolit Master Avenger442's Avatar
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    Allen asked me to review the paint on 500+ mold release. This is not the bonded release that Trevor has mentioned testing. It is what looks like a paint on version of this:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Some of you probably have this spray on. The biggest advantage of the paint on would most likely be cost since it is a powder you mix with denatured alcohol yourself. Most of you who have been using Hi Tek coatings for a while will remember when it was a two part liquid instead of a powder. This is something like that being a powder cheaper to ship. The paint on is grey instead of the white spray.

    I didn't do a long casting session. Just a little over 2 pounds of 112 grain and 12 400 grain. Both were hollow point bullets. The type molds I have the hardest time with. The 112 grain bullets are coming out of a 125 grain Lee mold modified with a sliding bar that has the hollow point pins mounted in it. It's a bugger to get the bullets to drop usually requiring a couple of sharp raps on the hing pin with my homemade wood mallet. The first 2 pounds came out fairly easy with no undue knocks on the hing pin. Then the sliding pins began to bind up. Not the mold release fault and I started to have to tap on the mold. Need to find a lube for those sliding pins. The second bullet is a 400 grain Lee single mold for my 45-70. It was manufactured by Lee with the hollow point pin. The bullets just dropped out of this one with the mold release. No tapping no rapping. Both molds are aluminum with steel pins.

    To sum it up I would say the paint on version of 500+ mold release is at least as good as the spray on to use. Maybe just a little better since the application can be controlled better. The spray tends to get on areas where it is not needed. I'm a little messy and have had white finger tips after using it.
    Last edited by Avenger442; 05-14-2021 at 12:43 PM.
    While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens. So it is best I ask him what, how and when before I start..

  18. #14238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jatz357 View Post
    Hi all, been away from the forum for a while. Been busy making projectiles and machines.

    Completed quite a few colour baking tests the last few days with my infrared oven using Hi-Tek Blue and Dark Green.

    Previous tests I had completed with Candy Apple and a custom made bronze showed very little colour change or darkening with elevated temperatures and bake times.

    I have now completed far more in depth tests with the Blue & Dark Green, so I have a better understanding how infrared affects Hi-Tek compared to convection ovens.

    Overview of how my infrared oven works. It has two heat zones (stages) 1st stage I have the temp set very high at around 250 C. Measurements I have completed show the projectiles ramp up heat very quickly to around 190 C by the time they exit the 1st stage. Stage two is normally set to around 218 C and the projectiles have to travel twice the distance as stage 1. Stage 2 holds the temp for around 3 minutes.

    I run the oven at these high temperatures because I was not having any colour change or burn issues. Coating cured well with short bake times and no adhesion problems. Normal oven transit time is around 5:30 minutes whilst the projectiles are under infrared rays for approximately 4:30. Very fast heat and cure time and high volume throughput.

    What was discovered? I found that the blue and dark green did not change colour significantly when baked at higher temperatures. (one extreme test did darken the final colour. Some projectiles after the 2nd coat and bake were put straight back into the oven and were 120C+ when they went back in, these would have reached over 235C+ and have been held above 220C+ for the whole 5:35 of the bake cycle)

    Tests were completed using my normal higher temperature fast heat and cure cycle and then reduced the temp and adjusted oven transit time so the coating was just reaching cure.

    One test of the blue I confirmed the temperature did not exceed 195C. Both 1st & 2nd oven temp stages were reduced to 198C & 192C respectively. Temperature of the test was confirmed using a thermocouple inside a projectile. This test took 5:40 for the projectiles to reach 180C and then during the last 3 minutes reached a maximum of 195C (total bake time 8:40). The coating was only just cured, there was some colour rub off but the coating stayed attached. The final colour was ever so slightly lighter than the higher temp test.

    See the image for colour comparison and an explanation at the bottom.

    Just bumping this post as had a few requests about the Infrared oven colour testing.

  19. #14239
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    Used the bonding release agent on the 124gn RN iron molds yesterday. These molds have a problem with poor fillout at the bevel base in certain spots if the temp isn't high enough. Normal cast temp is 690deg F but these need 730Deg F, and they can still have small imperfections at the base.

    Applied the BRA with a tooth brush to the cavities and bottom of the sprueplate. waited for the alloy to get to 700 deg F. cast 6 rotations and dumped them back into the pot. this warmed the molds.. the bullets from the molds had perfect fillout and fell free as they should. I cast 6500 without stopping for any issues. All bullets were perfectly formed. Looking at the cavities after the molds cooled, the BRA was still in the cavities and ready for the next session.
    Good job, Joe
    Last edited by Ausglock; 05-16-2021 at 04:56 PM.
    Hooroo.
    Regards, Trevor.
    Australia

  20. #14240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ausglock View Post
    Used the bonding release agent on the 124gn RN iron molds yesterday. These molds have a problem with poor fill-out at the bevel base in certain spots if the temp isn't high enough. Normal cast temp is 690deg F but these need 730Deg F, and they can still have small imperfections at the base.

    Applied the BRA with a tooth brush to the cavities and bottom of the sprue plate. waited for the alloy to get to 700 deg F. cast 6 rotations and dumped them back into the pot. this warmed the molds.. the bullets from the molds had perfect fillout and fell free as they should. I cast 6500 with stopping for any issues. All bullets were perfectly formed. Looking at the cavities after the molds cooled, the BRA was still in the cavities and ready for the next session.
    Good job, Joe
    Ausglock,
    Thanks for your feed back and report. Much appreciated.
    Historically, the original bonded version of the 500+ was designed, some 25-30 years ago to coat Glass molds internally, and glass went in to these molds at about 1300C. The original product was applied as an aerosol.
    The Glass molds were spray coated with original 500+ internally before use , and were pre-baked at 500C to set and bond the release agent.

    May be it should have been done many years ago, but until I had gotten more direct involved with casters and casting problems, I was not really aware of possible need for such a product by them, but aerosolized version was not practical as it was a dangerous goods and was prohibitive with transporting and high costs.
    The other reason is, and concerns historically, that the original product was not suitable, and may reduce internal volume of molds, and produce under weight and under diameter casts.

    I also had many asking me if I had a coating that protected molds from storage and corrosion, and also suitable for coating old corroded and pitted molds so that they can be used.

    Recently I modified the original bonded glass release agent, and made it as a powder, so it may suit the needs. It now seems, that the modified bonded version works OK.
    This is what you tested and reported on.

    The powder, non bonded version, has been tested and used by a commercial caster here on badly corroded molds.

    They worked all day without any issues on an auto caster without requiring re-application.

    Before starting up each day, they apply the non bonded version with a brush as a touch up, inside and on surfaces of the molds where alloy would stick, and then they start production. They reported back that this treatment essentially eliminated having to stop and start production with molds that had spatter interfering with correct casting.
    So far it has been a year and no problems at all. They were supplied a 50g Jar , and, after a year, they have more than half of it left.
    Last edited by HI-TEK; 05-15-2021 at 11:14 PM.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check