simple Hi-Tek coating

[Jhopson]

I am sure it has been asked before, but...what is the recommendation for max fps for Hitek coated bullets?


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[HI-TEK]

I am sure it has been asked before, but...what is the recommendation for max fps for Hitek coated bullets?


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You are correct. On this site, many have posted various speeds.
If I recall correctly, the coating worked at 3500ft/sec with a hard alloy, and it was about 32-34 hardness, coated twice and with three coats, sized correctly to suit the bore.
You did not specify at what speeds you are wanting to achieve.
If coatings are done correctly, and pass all tests, failures can be due to using incorrect alloy, wrong hardness and incorrect sizing.
The coating is not a fix-all, but is a simple way to separate bore and alloy.
I am almost certain, that people who had tested coatings at various speeds can supply you their experience and information.

[dverna]

Ausglock,

Those SG projectiles look great.

I have heard the 7/8 oz Lee slug is more accurate than the 1 oz if you run into issues.

[dikman]

Those shotgun slugs look nasty!

Jhopson, some on here have experimented at length to push the speed envelope for the coating, as Joe said you will either need very hard alloy or gas checks.

[Gremlin460]

Happy Easter to one and all... Ciao!

[Tazza]

Happy Easter to one and all... Ciao!

I was only thinking about you yesterday to see how you were going and to rattle your cage.

Happy (WET) easter!

[Gremlin460]

I was only thinking about you yesterday to see how you were going and to rattle your cage.

Happy (WET) easter!

Awwww Tazza , you makin me feel all warm and fuzzy... I have been/am as busy as hell tying to reorganize the whole block of land, moving workshop from the bottom to the top. got 1 out of 2 40ft containers . Need to lay a slab for the vehicle hoist, a whole bunch of things. Trying to find 450 adi powder now that ADI announced they are stopping production for the for-see able future. That sucks big time. Generally been ass down bum up for the last year....

Dropped in to read all the Ï can't get it to work" posts, and see who was still kicking about. Still have 10K plus coated, and a whole pile of lead to sort and convert into cookies. When and if I ever get time..

Mike

[Ausglock]

G'day Grem.
ADI are greedy and selling everything they make to the US market. More $$$ for them.
I got the last AP-100 from suffolks in Lismore last week.

Lucky I have a large stash of AP-100, AP-50, AP-70, Autocomp and Win 760.
And 70.000 primers..

[Tazza]

We are last on the list for powder... How much 450 are you looking for? i MAY be able to hook you up....

Talking about a container, i need to get my paws on one to store some of my rubbish

Good to hear you have a good supply of powder and primers, primers are going to be an issue int eh coming years i hear, fun times a head.

When you have used up all that lead to make little round things, i'll send you more to make more of them for me

[Jatz357]

Hi all, been away from the forum for a while. Been busy making projectiles and machines.

Completed quite a few colour baking tests the last few days with my infrared oven using Hi-Tek Blue and Dark Green.

Previous tests I had completed with Candy Apple and a custom made bronze showed very little colour change or darkening with elevated temperatures and bake times.

I have now completed far more in depth tests with the Blue & Dark Green, so I have a better understanding how infrared affects Hi-Tek compared to convection ovens.

Overview of how my infrared oven works. It has two heat zones (stages) 1st stage I have the temp set very high at around 250 C. Measurements I have completed show the projectiles ramp up heat very quickly to around 190 C by the time they exit the 1st stage. Stage two is normally set to around 218 C and the projectiles have to travel twice the distance as stage 1. Stage 2 holds the temp for around 3 minutes.

I run the oven at these high temperatures because I was not having any colour change or burn issues. Coating cured well with short bake times and no adhesion problems. Normal oven transit time is around 5:30 minutes whilst the projectiles are under infrared rays for approximately 4:30. Very fast heat and cure time and high volume throughput.

What was discovered? I found that the blue and dark green did not change colour significantly when baked at higher temperatures. (one extreme test did darken the final colour. Some projectiles after the 2nd coat and bake were put straight back into the oven and were 120C+ when they went back in, these would have reached over 235C+ and have been held above 220C+ for the whole 5:35 of the bake cycle)

Tests were completed using my normal higher temperature fast heat and cure cycle and then reduced the temp and adjusted oven transit time so the coating was just reaching cure.

One test of the blue I confirmed the temperature did not exceed 195C. Both 1st & 2nd oven temp stages were reduced to 198C & 192C respectively. Temperature of the test was confirmed using a thermocouple inside a projectile. This test took 5:40 for the projectiles to reach 180C and then during the last 3 minutes reached a maximum of 195C (total bake time 8:40). The coating was only just cured, there was some colour rub off but the coating stayed attached. The final colour was ever so slightly lighter than the higher temp test.

See the image for colour comparison and an explanation at the bottom.

[Tazza]

That is some awesome work there, i bet that took you some serious time to do, but it sure will increase production with a conveyor baking setup.

Love how well the blue came out, i really need to get me some of that in my next order...... I have been chewing through the powder recently with extra time from COVID, so an order can't be far away.

How did you ensure the load for the oven was the same very time? dud you just make sure there was just one layer across it? Was it a wire conveyor setup like i assume a pizza shop has, so you just pour out and it goes along being cooked, or did you put them on a tray and the tray moves?

I have gotten to know my oven settings, 200c for 15 minutes gives me 100% curing every time with two trays each with about 1,000 projectiles each. My measuring device is just a plastic bottle that i use each time i do a load, so it gets the same volume every time (yes, there will be variation for each projectile shape but it works for me).

I'm going to be doing some significantly heavier ones in the net few months, so that will need some fiddling for bake times, but a simple wipe test will give me that data.

[Jatz357]

That is some awesome work there, i bet that took you some serious time to do, but it sure will increase production with a conveyor baking setup.

Love how well the blue came out, i really need to get me some of that in my next order...... I have been chewing through the powder recently with extra time from COVID, so an order can't be far away.

How did you ensure the load for the oven was the same very time? dud you just make sure there was just one layer across it? Was it a wire conveyor setup like i assume a pizza shop has, so you just pour out and it goes along being cooked, or did you put them on a tray and the tray moves?

I have gotten to know my oven settings, 200c for 15 minutes gives me 100% curing every time with two trays each with about 1,000 projectiles each. My measuring device is just a plastic bottle that i use each time i do a load, so it gets the same volume every time (yes, there will be variation for each projectile shape but it works for me).

I'm going to be doing some significantly heavier ones in the net few months, so that will need some fiddling for bake times, but a simple wipe test will give me that data.

Thanks Tazza, yes that took quite a while.

The oven works via conveyor belt that is about 4mm open weave teflon coated fibreglass, I have two guide rails on the entry side to the oven and just pack as much in that space as I can. The projectiles are placed on top of the belt, no trays to worry about. They just travel through the oven and drop off at the other end. Bake times can be varied by adjusting belt speed.

From testing I have done with 100 to 158 grain projectiles I do not need to adjust bake time much at all. The infrared with PID control just ramps in more heat when required. 44 & 45 heavier projectiles might need some adjustments but I have not baked any of those sizes yet.

Just like you, I have gotten to understand how my oven works and run it the way that works best for me and the results I want.

Here's a boring video showing how the prototype works.

[Tazza]

That is awesome, can't get easier than that, load on the belt, and cooked lead drops out the other end. You sure can cook a lot in no time with that.

I had in my head that you'd need something quite fancy to handle the heat, but in reality, it should never get stupidly hot as the cure temperature is around 200c mark.

[Jatz357]

That is awesome, can't get easier than that, load on the belt, and cooked lead drops out the other end. You sure can cook a lot in no time with that.

I had in my head that you'd need something quite fancy to handle the heat, but in reality, it should never get stupidly hot as the cure temperature is around 200c mark.

Probably the best thing is repeatability. You don't have to worry about forgetting to remove trays and over cooking the coating.

When the first few start to exit the oven I just have a look and do a quick solvent test and adjust if required and then keep feeding the beast. The one in the video will run at around 150kg an hour. Next project may be an auto feeder so you spend less time loading the projectiles. Working up a sweat I can coat and bake 500kg twice, in one day.

[HI-TEK]

Thanks Tazza, yes that took quite a while.

The oven works via conveyor belt that is about 4mm open weave teflon coated fibreglass, I have two guide rails on the entry side to the oven and just pack as much in that space as I can. The projectiles are placed on top of the belt, no trays to worry about. They just travel through the oven and drop off at the other end. Bake times can be varied by adjusting belt speed.

From testing I have done with 100 to 158 grain projectiles I do not need to adjust bake time much at all. The infrared with PID control just ramps in more heat when required. 44 & 45 heavier projectiles might need some adjustments but I have not baked any of those sizes yet.

Just like you, I have gotten to understand how my oven works and run it the way that works best for me and the results I want.

Here's a boring video showing how the prototype works.

jatz357
Thanks for the informative video an details.
It would be useful to get an idea of throughput rates.
Have you got any production throughput details? please post.
This method of baking certainly seem to eliminate trays and handling and seems produce a lot per time with very even colours.

[Tazza]

Probably the best thing is repeatability. You don't have to worry about forgetting to remove trays and over cooking the coating.

When the first few start to exit the oven I just have a look and do a quick solvent test and adjust if required and then keep feeding the beast. The one in the video will run at around 150kg an hour. Next project may be an auto feeder so you spend less time loading the projectiles. Working up a sweat I can coat and bake 500kg twice, in one day.

Baking 500kg twice a day would just make me sore Some sort of shaker table hopper system to drop on the conveyor in theory wouldn't be horrible to make, but then working out a metering system is the more complex part.

150kg per hour is some serious output, the only possible addition that may help others is an option for a longer conveyor with fans to cool them to allow them to be coated faster. I use old 4 litre paint tins to drop mine in, when sitting in a can like that, it takes them a few hours to cool enough, if i tip them out on a table, they are cool enough to re-coat in about 20 minutes without using fans.

[Jatz357]

jatz357
Thanks for the informative video an details.
It would be useful to get an idea of throughput rates.
Have you got any production throughput details? please post.
This method of baking certainly seem to eliminate trays and handling and seems produce a lot per time with very even colours.

HI_TEK
Throughput rates for this oven is 150kg an hour (4600 watts) two separate heat stages can be individually controlled. Depending on run throughput, ambient temperature of environment and projectiles the oven runs at about 55% - 60% duty cycle about 17 - 18.5KW power usage per ton baked.

You can easily bake different styles and colours at the same time, just leave a small gap between the different types and just swap the catch tray at the appropriate time. The oven now has a drop chute at the end and it feeds the projectiles under the oven. When a change in type or colour comes through I put a block in the chute, change over the catch tray and remove the block. That stops projectiles dropping on the floor if you're too slow.

I have some video of the Blue & Dark Green baking and once I edit and upload it I'll share that too.

[Jatz357]

Baking 500kg twice a day would just make me sore Some sort of shaker table hopper system to drop on the conveyor in theory wouldn't be horrible to make, but then working out a metering system is the more complex part.

150kg per hour is some serious output, the only possible addition that may help others is an option for a longer conveyor with fans to cool them to allow them to be coated faster. I use old 4 litre paint tins to drop mine in, when sitting in a can like that, it takes them a few hours to cool enough, if i tip them out on a table, they are cool enough to re-coat in about 20 minutes without using fans.

Makes me sore too don't worry but it keeps me fit.

If I need to recoat quickly I'll put them in front of a fan to cool then recoat and bake again.

I have a few ideas on how to auto load the conveyor but it really doesn't take that much time to do it manually.

[ioon44]

Impressive, How do you know the 1st is dry enough to bake? To me getting the 1st coat dry is the most important step.

[rfd]

Until a few weeks ago I never did any bullet coatings. Investigations pointed me to the simplest method, powder coating. That's the route I took. It works amazingly well for me, right from the get-go. One shake, one bake, done. I see no need to mess with Hi-Tek when PC works so damn well.