I should mention that I'm using a relatively new (~2 years old) Oster toaster oven with an "air bake" mode that uses a fan to continuously circulate the air inside.
I only do about 5lbs at a time, which is what fits in the tray shown, and I stand them up on the base before baking, so they get good airflow.
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Originally Posted by ryanmattes
Thank you for update.
That is a lot of work to stand up that many casts, but obviously what you are doing works a treat.
All your finished casts look identical, so what you are doing works, and well.
Some simply dump in the pre-dried coated cast, (don't worry about spacings, and don't overload trays), and at half way point, they take out the tray, shake it around, and return it quickly into the oven to finish baking. That also works well.
As suggested, each person has to work out their systems ability and capacity, and use it to make suitable products.
You have done very well. Product looks good and it works also.
For those who had heard about Aqualube, used for Sizing, this link is where independent testing was done to put actual load figures, which details the reduction of loads during sizing.
Interesting reading.
The tests actually confirm actual load reduction by using Hi-Tek coatings, and Hi-Tek coating plus Aqualube.
I have many that use this as case lube as it is clean and dry and stops contamination.
Unlike other type of lubricants, it also is a powerful repellant to dust.
https://eminenceprojectiles.com.au/2...ndent-testing/
Sorry Joe, i haven't been on the forum for a few days, i'll get some pictures hopefully tomorrow if it's not pouring rain like they suspect.
It is fan forced, and i know i'm over baking them. I need to be a bit more careful and focus on doing less and actually monitor the temperatures.
Jatz did a great job on the tests of aqualube, i'm actually really surprised of how much hi-tek alone lowers friction, then the addition of aqualube makes it even less. It's great real numbers to back up claims, and the data is really impressive!
Aqualube is just great. I spray my 9 mm cases before they get loaded in a Square Deal.
It's also great for sizing uncoated bullets, no problem coating them afterwards. I have a mold that I should send back but I need the bullets NOW and hate the idea of downtime... I get seams and "whiskers", opening the mold takes lots of whacking, so does dropping...
...anyway, those surface problems stick and smear through coating when sized. So I'm sizing fresh bullets before I coat them to avoid the problem. Bullets being for 470 NE and quite hard alloy, Aqualube really helps tremendously, I go from .480 down to .477 at once using a poor old RCBS Lubrisizer. Seat checks first,then spray Aqualube. Let dry on top of oven for a while.
I'd break the Lubrisizer handle without Aqualube for sure.
Hello Petander,
With Aqualube, I knew it worked but was unable to supply actual facts, to demonstrate how much reduction of loads can be achieved when using this dry film lube.
Now, there is actual independent test results, which actually quantify just how effective was the Aqualube during sizing.
I am aware of it being used for cases for sizing.
With a "sticky" mold, that wont release cast alloy, you can try the Hi-Tek Bonded metal release agent. Even badly formed and or corroded molds instantly release alloy and is usable.
The product is applied simply by brushing on very sparingly with a bristle brush onto all surfaces.
You can use it dry, or made up as a paint in Acetone. A very thin film releases molten metals to about 1000C.
You get many releases without reapplications being required.
Ideal for auto casters. It stops alloy spatter sticking onto surfaces and it will lubricate the Sprue cutter surfaces.
No doubt Aqua-Lube is great stuff. I really like that you don't have to worry about contamination with it like other products.
I had some casts that had two coats and were coated with Aqua-Lube then sized. After about two months I decided to add a third coat to some of them so I could test adhesion of Hi-Tek after sizing with Aqua-Lube. Nothing special, just a normal coat of Hi-Tek, bake and smash test was perfect, no adhesion problems at all.
Last edited by Jatz357; 11-09-2021 at 05:20 AM.
Thank you Joe , I think we have a deal.
I tend to cast hot and this sounds good in many ways, especially brass molds. I keep my molds dead clean and very seldom have sticking problems but it happens... smearing/spattering still happens if I go too fast.
Can anyone tell me what pages that have a list of supplies that I would need to start up Hi Tec coating? Thanks for replies in advance. Somehow I missed the boat when Hi-Tech was starting up.
Muddy Waters 68
All you need is Hi-tek powder, syringe, pure acetone, container to shake your cast in, a tray to cook them on and an oven.
It's very simple.
I splurged on a $40 toaster oven at Walmart. I got an Oster with a "turbo" mode that basically has a fan constantly moving air inside.
Also got a cheap remote temp probe, like you'd use for a turkey.
A jug of acetone from home Depot.
I went to the wal Mart pharmacy and asked for a few medicine syringes in 5 and 10 ml, they gave them to me.
I use a cheap 3-set of Tupperware/sterilite disposable salad bowls with lids to shake in. I have 6 colors but I've still only ever used 2 of the bowls.
I use a cheap, FA digital scale to weigh the powder.
I picked up a small squirt bottle in the crafts section at Walmart, supposed to be for doing tie-dye.
Some hardware cloth to make trays from.
I only do 5lbs at a time, since that's all that fits in my toaster oven. So I cut the recipe in half, which almost, but not quite, fills the squirt bottle. I sometimes add a little extra acetone, maybe 10-ish extra ml, because this is Texas and acetone evaporates way too fast in the summertime.
I mix up a batch, or already have some mixed. Shake well, and give it several minutes for the chemicals to do their thing if you just made it. Dump about 5lbs of bullets in a bowl, give it 2-3 squirts with the mix, put the lid on, and swirl. I put the lid on because it evaporates fast here, so to get good coating I want it to stay liquid longer. After about 20 seconds or so I pop the lid so it's unsealed, but just sitting in top, and I continue swirling for another 10-20 seconds until you feel it dry up. You'll feel it. Depending on your ambient temp and humidity, you may not have to do the lid thing.
After that, dump them on the tray, give them a little separation for airflow (I stand them up, but you probably don't have to), and pop them in a 400 degree oven for about 8-10 minutes.
I take a throwback bullet and drill a hole in the end, and stick the probe in it. Then I put that probe slug on the tray with the coated bullets, and set the alarm for 180C. When they hit 180C I watch them to make sure the temp stays between 180-185C for 3 minutes, and take them out. That's it.
Here's everything but the oven.
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Ryanmatts
Like the way you think.
It don't have to be expensive to get started. I use the same bowls to tumble in. Ditto the syringes and hardware cloth trays. When I started I was using this $15 yard sale convection oven.The color on the bullets was not uniform. But the performance as far as no leading was the same as i get now. It finally fell apart and I went to a $90 convection oven. It has better air flow and will cook 10 pounds at a time. Colors are uniform now. The first mod I did was add a PID to control the coils in the oven. Now I also use a drilled bullet with a probe in the tray.
When I started I think I had less than $50 invested. And I was not getting lead in my barrel. If your after more performance as far as uniform color you can do that for about $100 +/= more. PID and Temp probes are cheap. If you went to top of the line in ovens you could probably add another $300 to that. But acceptable color performance will happen with a much cheaper oven. Air flow and uniform heating are the things you are buying.
I only coat for myself. I guess you would call it a hobby.
Last edited by Avenger442; 11-24-2021 at 02:14 PM.
While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens. So it is best I ask him what, how and when before I start..
I've found that good, consistent color is about the shake, not using too much mix, and the bake time.
At first I was using too much mix, which was giving a thick, textured coating that took longer to bake. Thinking about it I realized that however much mix I put in there, whenever the acetone evaporates, everything that's left will be stuck to the bullets. There's nowhere else for it to go. So I started making the mix thinner, and adding less of it.
Then I use the lid trick to keep the mix liquid so I get all the bullets coated consistently while it's still a liquid. That way I don't have any bare patches, everything has the mix in it. Then, when I feel like they've all gotten covered with the liquid, I pop the top and let it start to dry out. I dump them in the tray as soon as they start to bind up.
The bake time is also much shorter than you would think. Over-baking makes them dark and dull. They still shoot fine, but the longer you bake, the darker the color is.
I got my process together talking to the guys who made it, and that's how I came to "the lead needs to be at 180C for 3 minutes to properly cure." I mean, that's what they told me, not that I came up with it, I just worked out my own process for getting there.
So I stopped trying to time the bake altogether. It doesn't matter how long it takes to get up to temp, and that will vary widely with the ambient temp, so what matters is that the lead of the bullets reaches 180C and stays there for 3 minutes. With the convection fan on full blast it keeps the temp pretty consistent, so I just fire it up and wait for the temp sensor to go off, telling me that the internal temp of the bullets is 180C. Then I time 3 minutes and pull them out.
This results in a super-thin coating that still lets some of the metal color show through. Which is fine, it does the job of preventing leading just fine. The color isn't the important part, the actual coating is basically clear, and the color is suspended in the coating. You're good to go if preventing leading is your only goal.
But once you do that, of course the goal shifts. I want to bring out the color to make them pretty, since I'm giving them a color anyway, so I'll do a second coat, which completely covers them in a nice, bright color.
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Going to the other end of baking extremes, a commercial caster just installed a monster oven that cooks 12,000-13,000 in 10 minutes.Ryanmatts
Like the way you think.
It don't have to be expensive to get started. I use the same bowls to tumble in. Ditto the syringes and hardware cloth trays. When I started I was using this $15 yard sale convection oven.
When I started I think I had less than $50 invested. And I was not getting lead in my barrel. If your after more performance as far as uniform color you can do that for about $100 +/= more. PID and Temp probes are cheap. If you went to top of the line in ovens you could probably add another $300 to that. But acceptable color performance will happen with a much cheaper oven. Air flow and uniform heating are the things you are buying.
I only coat for myself. I guess you would call it a hobby.
They have increased output production by over 6 times, and now, cant coat fast enough to feed the oven.
A good position to be in, as orders are flooding in, and finished product can be supplied quickly.
Joe
Just noticed on Dillon Precision Holiday Deals; SNS is selling Hi Tec coated bullets. 500 9mm for $36. Not a bad deal. 7 cents per bullet.
While I work at it, it is by God's grace that it happens. So it is best I ask him what, how and when before I start..
Thanks again guys. I sort of knew some of the process from reading, but didn't know all of steps in order. I have most of the stuff already.
Joe:
Do I buy the Hi-Tech from you or is there sources in the USA that I can find Hi-Tech??
Muddy Waters 68
Order it online, it adds about $8 to the cost to ship.
The 3.5 oz container will do a *lot* of bullets, since you only need about a milliliter of the mix per pound. I've done several thousand gold and I've barely put a dent in my original 3.5oz old gold, and I'm sure I've dumped more out than I've used, just cleaning up. You could easily coat more than 10,000 bullets for that $25 (including shipping), so that's, what, 4-5 rounds coated for a penny? And the powder should keep pretty much forever.
https://hi-performancebulletcoatings...-oz-container/
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As ryanmattes said, the product is available from hi-performance bullet coatings in the US.
They can supply detailed instruction how to do the coating to get good results.
Just a suggestion, dont try to do things by altering what is advised.
You will get failures and wont know why.
A quick question, what sort of alloy are you using?
Last edited by HI-TEK; 11-26-2021 at 07:35 PM.
Thanks Avenger
It would really fit into their market as they deal with many customers.
It seems a good price, but I dont know what the US prices are like with coated casts and comparing it to jacketed ammo.
I had a customer that wanted a few 1000 124gn RN 9mm bullets in Red Copper.
I don't have any powder, so used the Old 2013 liquid red copper that has been in my fridge in the shed.
Mixed 5.1.7 with extreme Catalyst that is about 7 years old.
All coated fine. even the colour is spot on.
It took a fair bit of shaking to get the red copper liquid back into solution as it had settled over the years.
I put the bottle in a tumble bucket I have that chucks into the lathe. ran it on slow spindle speed for 30 mins and it mixed back in great.
Hooroo.
Regards, Trevor.
Australia
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