simple Hi-Tek coating

[HI-TEK]

Copper sulphate crystals from Bunnings. in a blue bottle.

You need to shop around as prices for Copper Sulphate varies greatly. Have a look at rural feedstock outlets, they should carry it, and may be cheaper.
Copper Sulphate comes as Blue crystals, and has Water of crystallization, and it is also available as anhydrous version which is more a whitish powder.
Both works well, but the Blue Crystals, what you buy contains water. Formula is CuSO4.5H2O. The white powder version contains little or no water. You can buy it on Ebay cheap as, when comparing it to other outlets.

Just an afterthought, if you are interested, you probably can make your own Copper Sulphate by using Old Lead Battery acid and scrap Copper wire, Copper tubing, and let it soak in the acid, in a plastic container/bucket that is OK with acid use. (use excess Copper to acid in weight). The Copper will dissolve slowly, and the acid will start to go blue, but if you have time and in no rush, it is an easy way to make your own Copper Sulphate. The best thing is, that it is free, if you have old dead car battery and scrap Copper.
Take care using battery acid, and just make sure you dont get the acid on yourself or your clothes. Wear rubber or latex gloves and eye protection against splashing.

[Avenger442]

Sorry Stephen. I've actually been in an area where there is no connection for my computer. So I just now saw your question. But Joe and Trevor did a good job answering it. I actually used the blue crystals. And they do contain a bit of moisture. Something that goes along with that is they will pop and crackle a little when added to the melt. They will produce a grey ash like material on top of the melt to be skimmed off. I would guess this contains the zinc.

Search this site "copper sulfate zinc"

[HI-TEK]

Sorry Stephen. I've actually been in an area where there is no connection for my computer. So I just now saw your question. But Joe and Trevor did a good job answering it. I actually used the blue crystals. And they do contain a bit of moisture. Something that goes along with that is they will pop and crackle a little when added to the melt. They will produce a grey ash like material on top of the melt to be skimmed off. I would guess this contains the zinc.

Search this site "copper sulfate zinc"

Avenger
When using Copper Sulphate, initially, put the Blue crystals on top of the cold alloy, Then start heating to melt the alloy. As temperature rises, it also will dry the Copper Sulphate and it will not pop and crackle.
Adding Copper Sulphate to alloy containing Zinc, the Copper sulphate will react with Zinc, and the Copper is then displaced, and Zinc will take its place forming Zinc Sulphate.
There are some questions if in fact the Copper actually melts into the molten Lead. Some seem to think that it happens, but others say it does not happen. Whatever Copper does not melt into the molten Lead it will be contained in the powdery residue floating on top of the molten alloy which is skimmed off.
The difficulty I can see is, that it is difficult to determine, at what point all the Zinc has been adequately removed. You can also have excess Copper Sulphate, and this will be removed during skimming of the molten alloy surface.
If you have a lot of Zinc in your alloy, the Copper Sulphate treatment may become expensive as you have to use a lot. For cost saving, my suggestion is just to cast with the contaminated alloy, then, Acid treat cast to remove surface Zinc and other unwanted surface metals before going towards the coating. That way you will leave majority of contaminants within the cast, and only remove surface contamination. The Hydrochloric Acid treatment is significantly cheaper that using a lot of Copper Sulphate.

[Summitcitybullets]

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[Ausglock]

....

Interesting post you have there, Summitcitybullets.
Care to elaborate??
lol

[HI-TEK]

Interesting post you have there, Summitcitybullets.
Care to elaborate??
lol

I dont know for sure, but it must be a coded message, not for your eyes.

[Avenger442]

OK guys. I'm back to civilization and web access.

So Joe I'm having a little trouble being sure of what you said. Does copper get incorporated into the lead alloy?

[HI-TEK]

OK guys. I'm back to civilization and web access.

So Joe I'm having a little trouble being sure of what you said. Does copper get incorporated into the lead alloy?

Avenger,
It was thought by some folk, that by using Copper Sulphate to remove Zinc, that when the metal displacement occurs, and Zinc is displacing Copper from the Copper Sulphate, the replaced Copper will dissolve into the molten alloy. Some think that this is what happens. Others, have a different opinion about the displaced Copper, and Copper was not dissolving into the molten alloy.
The melting point of Copper is very high, and well above the melting conditions used for the Lead. I have not seen any figures that either confirm or disprove this Copper solubility method.
I had read somewhere, a long time ago, that Copper wire was used as a MIG welding metal and was fed (welded) into the Molten Lead. The melting temperatures at metals interface, obtained by this method, it was claimed that Copper actually went into the molten Lead. How much Copper was "welded" into Lead alloy, it was claimed that the user weighed the Copper wire before and afterwards.
I have not seen any spectrographic tests that would confirm actual copper content of the Lead using this method.
I am a little skeptical about adding Copper to Lead metal via chemical reaction, or with Via Electric arc method.
I am happy to be proven wrong with all of this.

[dikman]

Given the hugely disparate temperatures for melting lead and copper I'm at a loss to see how copper could combine (fuse?) with lead at lead melting temperatures. It seems to me that any free copper, which would be in minute amounts, is likely to be mixed in with the dross.
But then, I'm not a metallurgist, just a neophyte who has played around with melting things.

[No_1]

....

Interesting post you have there, Summitcitybullets.
Care to elaborate??
lol

I dont know for sure, but it must be a coded message, not for your eyes.

Look at his posts count - he has been randomly posting “stuff” all over the forum today in an attempt to gain access to forum areas which have a minimum post count requirement. I deleted the rest of his posts but didn’t feel have the time to message each of you (who quoted him) with an explanation why I deleted your posts along with his.

[Avenger442]

Joe
We have a person on this forum that has access to spectrographic testing equipment. If he is willing of course, I'll ask if he can test a sample of the bullets I made by this method. Maybe that will put this to bed.

I can say that the bullets, when tested by my Lee tester, showed a higher BHN at 14 days. But being an unprofessional using the tester I used I don't know that this could have not happened for some other reason. Understand that I started with clean alloy COWW and I believe I added 2% tin. Then added the zinc via penneys (over 90% zinc) cut to help dissolve them into the mix. I haven't gone back and read my notes but I basically followed the method described on this forum to do this. And one last thing the resulting alloy seemed to be more malleable than the original. Of course this was an eye observation and not a scientific test. And there may have been some other reason other than the copper for this.

Will try to contact person today to see if he is willing to test.

[HI-TEK]

Joe
We have a person on this forum that has access to spectrographic testing equipment. If he is willing of course, I'll ask if he can test a sample of the bullets I made by this method. Maybe that will put this to bed.

I can say that the bullets, when tested by my Lee tester, showed a higher BHN at 14 days. But being an unprofessional using the tester I used I don't know that this could have not happened for some other reason. Understand that I started with clean alloy COWW and I believe I added 2% tin. Then added the zinc via penneys (over 90% zinc) cut to help dissolve them into the mix. I haven't gone back and read my notes but I basically followed the method described on this forum to do this. And one last thing the resulting alloy seemed to be more malleable than the original. Of course this was an eye observation and not a scientific test. And there may have been some other reason other than the copper for this.

Will try to contact person today to see if he is willing to test.

Hello Avenger
It will be great to test your alloy which was treated with Copper Sulphate. I also would be very interested in the results. It may be possible, that you did get some Copper dissolve, but I am a little skeptical, but I really hope that it works. I am a little puzzled why you mixed in some Zinc, then, try to remove it later on.
Your adding Tin, will improve malleability. Please post results, many will be interested in the outcome.
The only details that may be needed is, the weights/ratio of your metal mix.

[Avenger442]

The member has graciously accepted my request for test and asked for samples of before alloy and after.

Will try to get to mailing samples this week. I have several things in front of it. He will not be able to test until maybe next week. Allowing for mailing of sample, testing and reply will probably have the answer back in a couple of weeks weeks.

I did not have this available to me until recently. It has made a difference in consistency in my alloy. Unlike some i don't usually use the ordered certified alloy like Rotometals. So getting consistency from COWW and stuff off Ebay can be a problem. I can be thrifty that way. My wife says cheap. I guess she may know after 48 years.

[Stephen Cohen]

Family crisis over an I am back, thank you all for the feed back on copper sulphate it is all very interesting. I have removed Zink from lead with Sulphur and you do not want to breath those fumes. I do not know that Copper is put into melt but I did try the very thin copper speaker wire that someone suggested and it did seem to melt away when I fed it into mix by hand, I know my bloody fingers did. I have often wondered if the copper did mix through the alloy or was just contained in little pockets. It will be interesting to find if the theory has any credibility. Regards Stephen.

[Avenger442]

OK, test results are back on alloy. And thanks to BN for the help with spectrogram tests.

Pb = 88.7%
Sb = 6.7%
Sn = 4.4%
Cu = 0.2%

Since the copper is supposed to replace the zinc 1 to 1 it looks like I need to add more zinc next time. I don't have any zinc contaminated so I have to make it. I'll admit that I only used about six or seven zinc pennies in that batch. Not sure how much zinc that is. May have to try some pure zinc in a measured percentage of alloy to produce more copper in the alloy. Not really looking for something else to do right now so I may not get to it for a long while. And it is a nasty process.

[HI-TEK]

OK, test results are back on alloy. And thanks to BN for the help with spectrogram tests.

Pb = 88.7%
Sb = 6.7%
Sn = 4.4%
Cu = 0.2%

Since the copper is supposed to replace the zinc 1 to 1 it looks like I need to add more zinc next time. I don't have any zinc contaminated so I have to make it. I'll admit that I only used about six or seven zinc pennies in that batch. Not sure how much zinc that is. May have to try some pure zinc in a measured percentage of alloy to produce more copper in the alloy. Not really looking for something else to do right now so I may not get to it for a long while. And it is a nasty process.

Interesting results Avenger.
It would be great if it can be determined, how much Zinc was there in the beginning, and then how much Copper ended up to get the 0.2% Copper in the alloy.
For 65.4 grams of Zinc, the equivalent amount of copper is 63.5 grams, as you said about 1 to 1.
With metal replacement, it is the Zinc that replaces Copper. If you add more Zinc metal, I don't know if it will affect Copper content of the alloy. If you add Zinc to the alloy, and then Copper Sulphate, you will remove the Zinc, and as hoped, and add Copper to the alloy.
The difficulty is to get actual percentages. Adding excess Copper Sulphate to remove Zinc, and, when Zinc is removed, and having excess Copper Sulphate on top of molten alloy, then you also may start removing Tin, and some Antimony and will end up as Sulphates of those metals on top of molten alloy. With that reaction, I suppose you may end up with more Copper in alloy, but may be less Tin and less Antimony. The only way to determine all facts, is having accurate details of alloy composition, actual weights of Metal and or Copper Sulphate being added, and seeing results obtained with Spectrograph each time. A lot of work.

[Avenger442]

And like I said, I'm booked up for a while. I haven't even loaded any rounds for a few months. But it would be a worthy experiment with measured start and measured results. Maybe someone will read this and take the time to do it right.

[Ausglock]

2 new colours from HITEK.
Red Fire and HT Blue
This blue is stable when baked at elevated temps.
I baked the test samples at 205deg for 10 mins. My normal bake is 198deg C for 7 1/2 mins.



I have loaded the blue 125gn Conicals in 38 Supercomp Major power factor loads and fired 200 rounds yesterday in practice for IPSC. Zero fouling in the bore or the compensator of the STI TruBor race gun.

[Jatz357]

2 new colours from HITEK.
Red Fire and HT Blue
This blue is stable when baked at elevated temps.
I baked the test samples at 205deg for 10 mins. My normal bake is 198deg C for 7 1/2 mins.



I have loaded the blue 125gn Conicals in 38 Supercomp Major power factor loads and fired 200 rounds yesterday in practice for IPSC. Zero fouling in the bore or the compensator of the STI TruBor race gun.

They look pretty good.

[popper]

Avenger- you didn't add enough copper, it converted all the Zn but not much Sn (it will replace SN in alloy). It shows up as elemental not as some weird compound. I've run 0.2% to 2%, cast and shoot fine. Just depends on how tough you want your bullets. Shot some PB 145gr to 2k in 300 BO, accurate. I just found it more difficult to WD (heat treat) the HiTek than PC. Never recovered any rifle bullets but posted pics of 165gr PB TC 40sw into a rock pile from ~5 ft, 98% wt retention with some expansion.