Cast boolits in Glock 34

[Ron]

I recently bought myself a Glock 34 semi auto with the intention of using it in Police Service Match with cast boolits. Yesterday I went to my local indoor range and tested some loads. I was using (1) a 125 grn stuncated cone cb with 3.2grn ADI AP70N and PMC small pistol primers: (2) the same as (1) but with 3.4grns pwdr. Range distance was 25 metres.

The first group were scattered to the extent that I didn't even measure them The second group, of ten rounds were just under 3 inches. Not bad I thought considering new gun and 60 year old eyes. But not good enough, back to the shed for another batch.

The one thing I did notice was that there was no leading of the barrel. This seems to be contrary to everything I have read about Glocks and cast lead boolits. My cb's are cast from recovered range material.

Anyone out there have similar exepiences with the Glock?

Ron,

"FESTINA LENTE"

[Frank46]

Ron if you are casting using range scrap, you are casting your bullets out of a fairly hard alloy. About every month I'd go to the range and they'd be having theri sunday hi power matches. Since the pistol range is in the same alignment they close that down for safert reasons. But what it allowed me to do was harvestwach time two full buckets of rangr scrap. Made up a strainer to remove the bulk of the mud dirt or other debris. Shovel it up on the strainer shake it up good and dump the recovered bullets into one of the pails. The start on the second pail. Usually always managed to get two full pails. Most of the regular shooters shot store bought cast bullets. So most of the stuff was hard cast bullets, yeah there was some of the softer metals mixed but never considered it a curse as it was melted down in 100lb lots.

[Bullshop]

I recently bought myself a Glock 34 semi auto with the intention of using it in Police Service Match with cast boolits. Yesterday I went to my local indoor range and tested some loads. I was using (1) a 125 grn stuncated cone cb with 3.2grn ADI AP70N and PMC small pistol primers: (2) the same as (1) but with 3.4grns pwdr. Range distance was 25 metres.

The first group were scattered to the extent that I didn't even measure them The second group, of ten rounds were just under 3 inches. Not bad I thought considering new gun and 60 year old eyes. But not good enough, back to the shed for another batch.

The one thing I did notice was that there was no leading of the barrel. This seems to be contrary to everything I have read about Glocks and cast lead boolits. My cb's are cast from recovered range material.

Anyone out there have similar exepiences with the Glock?

Ron,

"FESTINA LENTE"

I recently got a Glock in trade. It's a 9mm sub compact. I found it didn't want to shoot anything under .357" diameter.
BIC/BS

[fecmech]

No Glock experience but I put about 3K cast rounds thru a Kahr K9 3.5" polygonal bbl with very little leading and decent accuracy. Velocities out of that bbl ran just under 1100fps and groups ran in the 3" range at 25 yds. Jacketed slugs did'nt do much better. I was sizing .357 for a .355 bore cause that was the only sizer I had at the time. Nick

[9.3X62AL]

Not meaning to repeat stuff I've posted before.......the 9mm benefits GREATLY from what would otherwise be "over-sized" bullets--and this isn't restricted to our preferred poured projectiles, either. My 2 SIG-Sauers both have .356" groove diameters, and dote on .357"-sized boolits. Same story in the Ruger P-89C, almost .357", and its sloppy chamber accomodates seated .358" boolits very well.

This is ONLY theory--but someone using the stop-sign bore in any caliber needs to make that bullet fit in some way. "Fatter is better" seems to be the way to go, but having no first-hand experience with the Glock and cast boolits, I can't say so from actual hands-on work. It occurs to me that in such a condition the operator might try getting an AREA measurement of the Glock's total bore, then derive a round bullet diameter that closely matches that area via calculation. Giving this some thought, since it appears a Glock is on the horizon at my house--but I still think a cut-rifled aftermarket barrel with minimum chamber radius--snug throating--and slowed rifling pitch is the real answer for the Combat Tupperware.

[Frank46]

Ron, my exploits with hard cast bullets in my beretta 92 were a disaster. They measured .355 and my bbl slugged out at .357. Leading was very severe. Good thing I brought some cleaning gear as it took awhile to get the leading out. So now I shoot them J bullets out of it. Gave all the hard cast to a buddy for his taurus 92 clone (at least I think it was Taurus) and he happily shot them with no problems. Go figure!. Frank

[Stray Round]

I've shot a few thousand commercial cast 9mm bullets through Glocks without any problem. I've mostly used 3.8gr of Bullseye or W231, leading was nonexistant in the Glocks.

I used to get a SWC 9mm bullet from Lane Bullet Co. that shot wonderfully small groups with the w231 in a Glock or Sig. The loaded rounds looked like shrunken H&G bulleted .45 target rounds and from the short lenght gave doubts about feeding, but worked fine. Shot 'em in a 380 fine too.


I've used the NBC 120 grain TC bullet with the same loads that have worked fine too. Not as accurate as the SWC bullet but still better than the factory FMJ rounds in the Glock.

[Ron]

I am glad to see others have had no problems with cbs in a Glock. Before the Glock, I had an H&K USP 9mm which our Fed Gov. declared elligal and I had to sell it to them. It also shot cbs without any problems. I was a bit concerned about shooting cbs in the Glock but my good friend and gun dealer mate said he thought that the people having trouble with leading in Glocks were the shooters who did not believe in cleaning their guns very often. I think he is right because I have not had a problem and I don't necessarily clean mine after every shoot.
Re my cbs, apart from the occasional purchase of store bought cast, I have always used recovered range material and prefer the hard boolits made this way. I suppose pistol shooting is a bit different from rifle shooting. We only shoot out to 50 metres and the variation in alloy composition/weight does not seem to be a great problem. I have an RCBS SWC 150 grn mould, boolits from which I use in my S&W 586 in Service Match and regularly place 6 round groups in the ten ring at 50 metres so recovered range material is OK from my point of view.

Ron.
FETINA LENTE

[Four Fingers of Death]

I am glad to see others have had no problems with cbs in a Glock. Before the Glock, I had an H&K USP 9mm which our Fed Gov. declared elligal and I had to sell it to them. It also shot cbs without any problems. I was a bit concerned about shooting cbs in the Glock but my good friend and gun dealer mate said he thought that the people having trouble with leading in Glocks were the shooters who did not believe in cleaning their guns very often. I think he is right because I have not had a problem and I don't necessarily clean mine after every shoot.
Re my cbs, apart from the occasional purchase of store bought cast, I have always used recovered range material and prefer the hard boolits made this way. I suppose pistol shooting is a bit different from rifle shooting. We only shoot out to 50 metres and the variation in alloy composition/weight does not seem to be a great problem. I have an RCBS SWC 150 grn mould, boolits from which I use in my S&W 586 in Service Match and regularly place 6 round groups in the ten ring at 50 metres so recovered range material is OK from my point of view.

Ron.
FETINA LENTE

I had a nice little 26 which loved virtually any cast boolit. I never got to cast for it, but used lots of commercially cast bullets in it. It absolutely loved 4Gns231 behind a 125 cast. I now have a Beretta and I'm jack of it. I have not had much success with it. It has just had a trigger job, if it hasn't lifted it's game when it comes back, it's going on the block and I'm gonna get get another Glock.

[Ron]

Dep.Al, had my gunsmith mate slug both my 586 and the Glock 34 last Saturday morning. Both measured at .355. I size my cbs to .357 and never have any probs with lead. I did use a locally made shop cast with black teflon lube and have never seen as much lead in the 586 barrel, took me nearly an hour to get it all out and it came away in slithers up to 1 1/4 inches long. Don't use them any more.

Ron.

[Four Fingers of Death]

Dep.Al, had my gunsmith mate slug both my 586 and the Glock 34 last Saturday morning. Both measured at .355. I size my cbs to .357 and never have any probs with lead. I did use a locally made shop cast with black teflon lube and have never seen as much lead in the 586 barrel, took me nearly an hour to get it all out and it came away in slithers up to 1 1/4 inches long. Don't use them any more.

Ron.

I have never had any problem with the teflon coated boolits. I buy them a couple thousand at a time. No smoke from the lube on cold misty mornings. I shoot them at target speeds in my 38Special, 120 power factor in my 586, at Winchester factory levels in my 9mm, flat out in my 38 super and at warp speed in my 44mag.

The brands that I have used are Hawkesbury River Blackhawks (these are what I have mostly used, with the black coating and more recently with the bright blue/green coating) and Score brand with the gold coloured coating. What brand are you using?

[Ron]

4 fingermick - I can't remember the make of the black ones and as I don't use them anymore, it makes no difference. I have not used the Hawksbury River pills but I have a few mates in our club who do. I have only heard good things about them. You mention "power factor", are you shooting ICORE and/or IPSC? Where about's in Oz are you?

Ron

FESTINA LENTE.

[9.3X62AL]

Glock results with cast boolits are all over the map--as the experiences related here indicate. SIG-Sauers aren't supposed to be lead-capable, either--but I do all right with my pistols (both 9mm's). The Glock I'm considering will be in 40 Short & Weak, and chances are it will get an aftermarket barrel with cut rifling and fully-supported chamber. I think the Beretta 40 and a S&W M-4513TSW will go on the block to enable the Glock, its barrel, and some accessories without depleting the discretionary funds a lot.

[Ron]

Deputy Al, for what its worth, a friend of my brought in an after market bbl from the States for his Glock. It cost about $200.00. After some months he is having doubts about the advantages if any of the new bbl.

Ron

FESTINA LENTE.

[Four Fingers of Death]

4 fingermick - I can't remember the make of the black ones and as I don't use them anymore, it makes no difference. I have not used the Hawksbury River pills but I have a few mates in our club who do. I have only heard good things about them. You mention "power factor", are you shooting ICORE and/or IPSC? Where about's in Oz are you?

Ron

FESTINA LENTE.

I have been shooting Service, Centrefire, Cowboy action (use the teflons in both rifle and pistol) and lots and lots just practising and plinking. I haven't started shooting IPSC yet as I haven't had a club near me that shoots it. I will be giving it a go soon as my club at Bathurst is affiliating with the IPSC body. Even though I have not actually competed as such I have run the Beretta in on Hawkesbury River Teflons and the 38 Super Colt 1911 in on Score brand Teflons without problems. I have stuck to 120 power factor in the Beretta and 165 power factor in the 38Super. I usually run autos in with at least 600 rounds and I have fired an extra 200odd factory loads through the 38.

I didn't realise that you didn't need major power factor in the production classes. Live and learn, the Colt lapped it up though.

I come from Bathurst, but am currently posted to Muswellbrook in NSW.

Cheers, Mick.

[9.3X62AL]

Ron--

That's "comforting". The barrel I lean toward is semi-locally produced, the Bar-Sto. These have cut rifling and bores "at spec"--.355" grooves, and slower twist rates, I want to say 1-20"....but that might be in error.

I've fired one Glock (Model 22 x 40 S&W) and several Beretta 92's (9mm) with the Bar-Sto's on board, and they were all tackdrivers using commercial cast boolits--no leading either. Bar-Sto recommends letting them fit their barrel to your pistol, which involves NO polishing or metal removal from your pistol's slide or receiver--thus not altering factory barrel dynamics.

What I'm really chasing with the aftermarket barrel idea is safety as well as cast boolit friendliness. The fully-supported 40 S&W chamber cut at minimum tolerances--unlike stock Glocks, which are pretty wide--would be a lot more reload-friendly all around. The Glock-trained armorers at my old agency stated that the urban legends concerning stock Glock chambers and ka-BOOMS with reloaded ammunition were factual--very infrequent, but did occur. Their mantra "Use Only Factory Ammunition" got old and tired, though.

[AnthonyB]

Deputy Al, may I ask why you are stuck on the idea of a .40 caliber Glock? Why not buy the low pressure, cast friendly M30? I can understand if it is a brass issue(you have tons of it and need a release), but the .45 seems to be much more cast friendly and at least as effective as the .40 with jacketed boolits.
Tony

[9.3X62AL]

Good point, Anthony. The 40 S&W is generally a pain in the ass for the reloader, sort of like the 9mm on steroids--which is what it is, in reality. I already have a couple 45's, and if another one comes along it will be in the 1911A1 format. The 40 S&W/Glock would replace the Beretta 96 that I plan to sell. If the Glock weren't so much cheaper than the few 1911A1 variants available in 40 S&W, I would go that route--but the Glock and aftermarket barrel can be had for less than a 1911A1--and I can carry the Glock on my CCW, unlike the 1911A1.

[BlueMoon]

I've got a Glock 19 in 9mm and bought some Laser Cast 147tc's to shoot in it. These bullets were hard (bhn 20) and I shot them with the jkt data in the manuals up to max with no leading and as good accuracy as I could manage with jkt. Not sure what these bullets size was but I think it was about .356". I've changed out my guide rod and recoil spring to a metal rod and maybe a little heavier spring (non-captured) so I'm not sure my pistol would cycle some of the lighter loads.

Bill

[Four Fingers of Death]

Ron--

That's "comforting". The barrel I lean toward is semi-locally produced, the Bar-Sto. These have cut rifling and bores "at spec"--.355" grooves, and slower twist rates, I want to say 1-20"....but that might be in error.

I've fired one Glock (Model 22 x 40 S&W) and several Beretta 92's (9mm) with the Bar-Sto's on board, and they were all tackdrivers using commercial cast boolits--no leading either. Bar-Sto recommends letting them fit their barrel to your pistol, which involves NO polishing or metal removal from your pistol's slide or receiver--thus not altering factory barrel dynamics.

What I'm really chasing with the aftermarket barrel idea is safety as well as cast boolit friendliness. The fully-supported 40 S&W chamber cut at minimum tolerances--unlike stock Glocks, which are pretty wide--would be a lot more reload-friendly all around. The Glock-trained armorers at my old agency stated that the urban legends concerning stock Glock chambers and ka-BOOMS with reloaded ammunition were factual--very infrequent, but did occur. Their mantra "Use Only Factory Ammunition" got old and tired, though.

I wouldn't use non factory ammo in a 40+ cal under any circumstances. I have fired lots through my 9mm Glock 26 before it got confiscated. Look up Glock Kb on the net and see what I mean. The agency I work for uses Glock 40s for a lot of its officers and they have seen several Kbs at the range. They were blamed for not cleaning properly, but one went on the first mag! Our armourer feels that 2 factors contribute to it. Firstly the chamber is 'accomodating' and not fully supported. He also feels that the guns will fire slightly out of battery. Bad combination.

Who knows if he is right? He is trying to get the Dept to change to 357 revolvers, which is not supported by the troops. I advised him to acquire a few training bbls for range use with reloads. That does not seem to have impressed him.

As to the polygon rifling I do not have a problem with and if I had to choose, I would probably select it if the quality was equal. We looked at USPs apparenly and our armourer asked the rep what sort of amo they could use in the pistols.., he said "if you can jam it in the chamber, these guns will handle it safely."

Glocks are mega cheap, but those USPs look good.