M1 Garand and CB's!

[Freightman]

I said to self, bullet prices keep going up, I have lots of lead, load your M1 ammo with CB's! well I loaded three loads, one was a LEE 160g with GC, then a 180g with GC from Lyman, and a 150 with GC from Lyman. I used IMR 4895 because it is a M! started with 40g and worked up the 160 worked great at 44, the 180 were at 42.7 and the 150 were best at 45. No problems with cycling and of course no leading (should be no lead if cast right,and sized right) used 50/50 BW/LLA, LLA, and teflon tape. all seemed about as good as the other, saw no difference.
So you who are getting CMP Garands do not be afraid to use CB's or you will miss half the fun (working up loads) I would stay with the recomended powder types, have tried slow WC872 with fair results but not as good as 4895.

[rigmarol]

Thanks Freightman, I'll be working up some loads for my newly acquired Garand very soon! I'm collecting info at this point.

[PatMarlin]

Teflon? How are you using that?..

[redneckdan]

put the gas check on, the wrap with teflon pipe tape, then size again.

[PatMarlin]

I thought teflon was not to good for bores? There was some threads on the subject, but that's been quite awhile.

[Freightman]

Rem-Oil and others have "teflon" in them!

[PatMarlin]

If I remember right I think it was Felix who said there was a problem with the tape. Maybe he will see this and chime in?

[felix]

All the teflon impregnated greases and fluids should have a caution associated with them, printed on the container. Not for extreme heat! When you boil down the warning, heat should be implied to be the product of heat times time. Teflon can break down into a fluoride gas which will ATTACK anything in and around us. ... felix

[WineMan]

Fluoride added to water for teeth hardening (unless you protest loudly). Fluorine gas is the most reactive element!

Most of the Freons (another DuPont product) also have quite a bit of Fluorine in them and when combusted can make Phosgene gas

I at one time used Hydrofluoric acid to etch glass and now low life graffiti taggers have found a source in Sacramento and regularly mark store windows, and the entire piece of glass has to be replaced. It has no real effect on some plastics though.

[LavaTech]

I believe you're right Freightman, it must be time to modify the feeding habits of my M1s. I must have nearly 500 lbs of linotype, 90 lbs of pure, and 70 lbs of wheelweight lead waiting for some molds & alloying.

[Sherlok]

I realize the possibility of a problem, but somewhere some plumber has heated an old teflon wrapped pipe with a blow torch to loosen it. Also they used to make teflon coated bullets - the so called "cop killers". Never heard of any problems.

The teflon taped bullet idea sounds interesting.

Regards,
Sherlok

[PatMarlin]

I've got a 300 winny that is defintely not cast friendly. Some guy claims he was using teflon with good results with the 300.

Even though it's a tack drivin' condom shooter, I'm probably going to have it re-bored to a larger cal. What harm would I do tryin' the teflon?

Sir Felix?..

[Sherlok]

I'm trying to load CBs for a Garand with a new .308 barrel. Of course with the short neck I'm going to have to seat my bullet (150 Grn) well into the case so the nose will just barely touch the lands. I'm concerned about powder sticking to the messy lube even killing some of the powder over time.

I'm not crazy about idea of using fillers of any kind. I have thought of lubing just the forward gease grooves leaving the ones sticking into the case bare. But if the teflon works, that might just solve the problem.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
Sherlok

[BruceB]

Sherlok:

I've now loaded several thousand rounds of wildly-assorted 7.62 NATO cast ammo for my M1A (see the sticky at the top of this Forum). These run the full range from Lee's 130-grain to the Lyman 311284 at about 220 grains.

No troubles have yet arisen from lube grooves below the neck, but since most of the loads were experimental, they were fired very shortly after loading, and spent very little time in storage.

I use dacron fill a LOT, and one very nice side effect, apart from any ballistic benefit, is that it positively eliminates any contact between powder and lubricant.

The dacron has not given any difficulty either in the M1 Garand or M1A, and I'm happy with it.

If you're really set against using any filler, even such a lightweight inert fluff as dacron, then I'd suggest you experiment with some of the higher-viscosity lubes which are less-likely to get tacky in storage. The main concern to me would be the possible contamination of the powder, because any powder granules adhering to the shank of the bullet will be instantly scraped off as the bullet moves through the case neck. Lately, I've been using Lar45's 50-50 lube mixed with his Carnauba Red in the ratio of 2 tubes of 50/50 to one tube of CR. This reduces tackiness to some degree, but can still be applied from my 450 sizers without added heat. The Carnauba Red takes FAR longer to melt in the microwave, showing it is indeed a higher-melting-pont lube and thus should result in less tackiness in storage.

Lubing the forward grooves only is an idea I dislike. Keeping the lubed portion inside the neck seems (to me) to be far preferable for ease of handling and cleanliness.

Sitting here at work, where I can't check on this, it suddenly occurs to me that the 150-grain bullets should seat with NO grooves below the neck at normal "factory" cartridge length . This is the bullet weight around which the cartridge was designed, and I THINK my 311466 bullets work well with NO grooves below the case neck. If so, then there is no problem at all. I'll take a look when I get home tonight and get back to you.

I will repeat a warning given here previously: THERE MUST BE NO IMPEDIMENT TO FREE AND EASY CHAMBERING OF THE CARTRIDGE IN M1/M1A RIFLES!!!!! This means that NO contact should be made with the lands or leade of the barrel during chambering. Seat just short of land contact, and all should be well, but do NOT seat the bullet out so that it touches the lands. To do so runs the risk of increasing the chance of a slam-fire condition, and we sho' 'nuff do not want that!

[PatMarlin]

I really like the consistancy of Bullshop's speed green. It worked though my old lyman 45 with no problems, and the accuracy I got yesterday with no leading seems to show it's working real well.

I had been using LBT soft which migrated, specially smears with a boolit not sized all the way around. Lar's Carnuba red was next, and I didn't have quite enough to give it a serious try, but when I added the speed green behind lars, the green deffinitely is not as sticky, and I was able to run .3595 and larger boolits through a .360 sizer with no smears out of the lube grooves. That was very cool. Never could do that with LBT.

[BruceB]

Sherlok;

I measured the dimensions I'm using for the 152-grain 311466 bullet in 7.62 NATO.

The overall length of the cartridge is 2.620", and at that seating depth even the front edge of the gascheck is contained in the case neck.

It's safe to say that with the vast majority of 150-grain bullets, you will have NO exposed lube grooves below the neck and in contact with powder.

I trust that makes you a bit happier?

[Sherlok]

Bruce B, you are certainly the most knowledgeable on this subject. I’ve read every word of your sticky and am convinced of the need to assure that cartridges load flawlessly in an autoloading rifle for the reasons you have so well enumerated.

I also agree that the grease ideally should be unexposed within the case neck. The bullets I’m trying to use are the Lyman #311466, a Loverine design, and Saeco’s #311 both of which have worked OK for years in 03-A3's with well-worn throats. But with this new barrel and new (for me) caliber, they are seated pretty far into the case.

The idea of using the new harder lubes as suggested by PatMarlin is interesting. Much has happened in the 20 years that I sort of put away the moulds because of suitable space and time limitations.

It seemed to me that when I was into casting heavily, Dacron fillers were considered dangerous especially in bottlenecked cases which is why I’m reluctant to use them. Has that idea changed too? You seem to be doing splendidly with it. (I’m not even sure where you get Dacron.) But, that would solve no only the lube problem, but reduce the possibility of detonation as well.

I could be swayed.

Thanks,
Sherlok

[Sherlok]

Sorry BruceB. I posted mine before I saw your last post.

My overall length for the .308 with the Lyman 311466 is 2.55" in order to keep it off of the lands. (Unfired barrel.) So really only the gas check and its groove are below the neck. I'll just try to wipe off the bottoms before seating.

Thanks, Sherlok

[smokemjoe]

All I shoot in my M1s is Ly. 311284 and 40 grs. 4064, Shoot single shot only and is a very accurte load at 200 yds.

[Three44s]

I own a Garand but have not tried handloading for it yet ....... much less cast boolits. I do handload for many cartridges and cast for many of those however.

I have always heard that lead and gas ports don't mix.

Any pit falls?

How much trouble is it to clean the gas system on a Garrand after shooting lead?

Three 44s