Is this legal?????

[oldred]

Even if it is, and I doubt it, isn't it in violation of E-Bay rules?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/130865066250...84.m1438.l2648

[Love Life]

Looks legit. It is sad that I don't have any riffle stocks or riffle barrels to complete it though...

[DLCTEX]

Since it is an 80% or less complete action it is not required to have a serial number and is not a forearm, just gun parts. It would need heat treating only if used for high pressure cartridges IMHO. It may need it for wear prevention.

[starmac]

I don't know if it violates ebay rules or not, but I'm sure some busybody will turn it in and see.

[oldred]

I certainly wasn't complaining I was just surprised that a receiver could be finished to that point and still be considered as 80% or less and if it's ok with E-Bay I think that thing is a great idea, I hope he gets what he is asking for it.

[lylejb]

I'm no lawyer but,

I recall reading that guns made before 1898, or replicas thereof, that fire black powder are considered antiques, and do not require ffl's, ect. This is how muzzle loaders can be built and sold directly. I also vaguely remember something about no commercial ammo being available to fall into this catagory, for cartridge guns.

If it was completed in a obsolete, black powder only caliber, he may get away with it.

However, if it was completed in a modern, currently available caliber, I think he would be on very thin ice.

I wouldn't want to have to prove this is legal.

[leadman]

A modern replica that fires fixed ammunition falls under normal modern firearm rules. Even an 1891 Mauser that has had the stock and barrel cut down fall under normal firearm rules. To be a curio & relic the gun has to be in it's original state. Muzzleloaders that fire black powder do not fall under Federal firearms rules.

[Bad Water Bill]

As I see it you are looking at a collection of misc pieces cast,machined or purchased, by someone with a certain amount of metal working skills.

Not ONE part has ever been a part of a functioning firearm.

Can these pretty pieces of misc types of metal EVER be assembled into a working firearm?

Put your money up and then report back to us with the results.

[gbrown]

There are no rules or policies that prevent Ebay from making a profit. I guess you could say, that's the first rule. They will allow anything (like selling the first born, or the bullet that killed John Lennon) to sell as long as there is profit for them. They have allowed all sorts of whacko stuff on there, as long as there is profit for them.

[lylejb]

A modern replica that fires fixed ammunition falls under normal modern firearm rules. Even an 1891 Mauser that has had the stock and barrel cut down fall under normal firearm rules. To be a curio & relic the gun has to be in it's original state. Muzzleloaders that fire black powder do not fall under Federal firearms rules.

Not talking about C&R, that's a different set of rules. Talking about "antique firearm", (which is not C&R)

From ATF publication p5300.4

(16) The term "antique firearm"
means—
(A) any firearm (including any firearm
with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion
cap, or similar type of ignition
system) manufactured in or before
1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described
in subparagraph (A) if such
replica—
(i) is not designed or redesigned
for using rimfire or conventional
centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional
centerfire fixed ammunition which
is no longer manufactured in the
United States and which is not
readily available in the ordinary
channels of commercial trade;

[oldred]

There are no rules or policies that prevent Ebay from making a profit. I guess you could say, that's the first rule. They will allow anything (like selling the first born, or the bullet that killed John Lennon) to sell as long as there is profit for them. They have allowed all sorts of whacko stuff on there, as long as there is profit for them.

That's not true at all, they have some pretty strict rules when it comes to firearms and ammunition and they will pull a listing for a receiver in a heartbeat! They also strictly prohibit live ammo and reloading components, thay will not even allow empty brass or bullets (even home cast) and certainly no powder, primers, etc. In fact they are very picky about ANYTHING related to firearms and shooting so that's why I was surprised to see that thing on there, looks like they either have not noticed it yet or they don't consider it a receiver. They even banned the sale of barrels for several years and have just recently amended the rules to allow those listings again.


lylejb, Leadman is right about the replicas and the pre-98 rule applies only to originals so replicas that fire fixed ammunition are considered new firearms and the same laws apply regardless whether the ammo is considered obsolete or not. "Antique firearm" to the feds means EXACTLY that, the firearm must be an actual antique and this is a well know fact. If replicas could sold as antiques to skirt the law the manufacturers would be all over it, unfortunately if it was built after 1898 and fires fixed ammunition it is a new firearm and new firearm laws apply regardless of when it was designed and first sold or what it is a copy of.

[km101]

The way fleabay rules change, and the laxity with which they are enforced, it may/may not be in violation. But some anti will surely report it.

[oldred]

About a month ago I saw a complete shotgun receiver for a Stevens 94 listed as a "trigger assembly" but the only things missing were stocks and barrel. With a barrel and stock/forearm this thing could have become a usable shotgun in a about two minutes using nothing but a screwdriver. I have no doubt that was in violation of E-Bay rules never mind the ferderal laws that were broken. Also last year I came across a listing for 22 Magnum RF as a BIN listing (I even posted here about that listing at the time) with several available so I put it in my watch list to see what would happen, it was up for two days before it was taken down. Apparently some things slip by them and while the 22 WMR ammo was probably legal it was in violation of E-Bay rules, rules that are clearly spelled out, but that shotgun receiver is a different story. Advertising for sale a firearm (such as that receiver), taking money for it and then sending it to a stranger without doing the fed's silly paper work could easily cause someone to be in deep,,,,,,well you know!

[trooperdan]

Riffle? *** is that?

[TJF1]

it has all the pins, link. and long tail sear are missing
terry

[TJF1]

I'm no lawyer but,

I recall reading that guns made before 1898, or replicas thereof, that fire black powder are considered antiques, and do not require ffl's, ect. This is how muzzle loaders can be built and sold directly. I also vaguely remember something about no commercial ammo being available to fall into this catagory, for cartridge guns.

If it was completed in a obsolete, black powder only caliber, he may get away with it.

However, if it was completed in a modern, currently available caliber, I think he would be on very thin ice.

I wouldn't want to have to prove this is legal.

it is a coil spring action they were made for smokeless terry

[wv109323]

The BATFE would have to rule ( or has ruled) that the kit is"80%" and is not a firearm for it to be legal under the GCA of 1968. For a "kit" to meet that criteria some substantial machine work would need to be completed. Only the BATFE can make up it's own mind what is "80%" and what is not. It would vary from one firearm design to another.
I don't know current E-bay policy. With E-bay is was legit under their rules then it wasn't legit under their rules. Five or six years ago they were allowing 80% 1911 frames to be sold.

[oldred]

f it was completed in a obsolete, black powder only caliber, he may get away with it.

Of course the feds don't care what kind of powder the firearm originally fired so BP or smokeless really don't figure into it too much. The bottom line is if it was made after 1898 and is chambered for a fixed cartridge then firearms law applies. There are lots of replicas of fixed cartridge firearms, replicas of models made well before 1898, that are made today and not a single one is sold without FFL paper work. Pedersoli, Uberti, even Shiloh and C Sharps all make pre-1898 replica firearms some even in obsolete BP calibers and ALL OF THEM require meeting current firearm laws to buy one. If simply building a replica that fired an obsolete BP cartridge allowed for getting around the firearms form all the manufacturers would be building them, how many do you know that do this?

[lylejb]

The definition I posted was from the ATF's site. Take it however you like.

As I said earlier, I wouldn't want to HAVE TO prove it's legal.

I won't be bidding on that one.