OK, I'm going for it.... I think.

[Any Cal.]

I have to play with what I think is a good candidate for paper-patching, a 375 Ruger. The plan is to run 270ish boolits @ 2200ish. As far as I can tell, I can't get there w/ grease froove boolits, and I have no desire to pay for J-words. Swaging looks to cost a lot, so it leaves me at PPing.

Can I size down a regular boolit to bore diameter, down .010" to use for patches w/ no issue? It looks like it is OK since I don't have to worry about lube grooves.

Do I have to size after patching? I am hoping not, since I often shoot as-cast.

Will water dropped scrap get me to 2200?

Can I use paper that is available, or does it have to be really special? Hmm, I have tried 3 sitting around the house, none worked when they got moist. How wet do they need to be?

If I end up w/ a roundnose or a spitzer mold, will it expand >2k fps, or should it be flat?

If I roll them dry, how do I know when they are tight enough?

I have no measurements yet because I have been hours getting the cerrosafe out. Finally shot it out w/ 10g of 5744 this a.m. Trying to do this on the cheap, so would like to get by w/ one mold and one sizer if possible. I would like to get a 375449 and a .366ish sizer, and patch up and be done, if that is plausible.

I have 2400 and 4064 to work with for powders, as well as faster stuff.

Any thoughts and advice are welcome.

[geargnasher]

I have to play with what I think is a good candidate for paper-patching, a 375 Ruger. The plan is to run 270ish boolits @ 2200ish. As far as I can tell, I can't get there w/ grease froove boolits, I think it can be done, but patching may or may not be easier for you. and I have no desire to pay for J-words. Swaging looks to cost a lot, so it leaves me at PPing.

Can I size down a regular boolit to bore diameter, down .010" to use for patches w/ no issue? It looks like it is OK since I don't have to worry about lube grooves. Follow the directions in Pdawg Shooter's sticky thread.

Do I have to size after patching? I am hoping not, since I often shoot as-cast. Follow the directions in Pdawg Shooter's sticky thread.

Will water dropped scrap get me to 2200? And well beyond.

Can I use paper that is available, or does it have to be really special? Ordinary lined notebook paper will do fine for your purposes starting out. Hmm, I have tried 3 sitting around the house, none worked when they got moist. How wet do they need to be? I do mine by dipping the patch i a dish of water, laying it on the board, squeegeeing/smoothing it by wiping across the patch briskly with my finger, and getting it on the boolit in less than 20 seconds. Many papers start to come apart after being wet for too long, and too long isn't very long. Other papers, like 100% cotton vellum, needs baking soda in the water to help break it down so it's limp enough to twist or fold a good tail.

If I end up w/ a roundnose or a spitzer mold, will it expand >2k fps, or should it be flat? Depends on the alloy. Nose shape is pretty much irrelevant with malleable cast boolits. With hard cast boolits, it DOES matter a great deal for hunting purposes.

If I roll them dry, how do I know when they are tight enough? If you can't twist the core within the paper.

I have no measurements yet because I have been hours getting the cerrosafe out. Finally shot it out w/ 10g of 5744 this a.m. Trying to do this on the cheap, so would like to get by w/ one mold and one sizer if possible. I would like to get a 375449 and a .366ish sizer, and patch up and be done, if that is plausible.

I have 2400 and 4064 to work with for powders, as well as faster stuff.

Any thoughts and advice are welcome.

The only measurements you need are chamber neck at the front, throat entrance diameter, and BORE diameter. Read Pdawg's sticky to learn how to fit the core and patch to the gun.

Making an impact cast, pound slug, impact slug, whatever you want to call it is a far better and easier way (to me, anyway) to make an accurate chamber and throat cast. The process has been detailed in various places on the forum, usually referred to as a pound cast, see if a forum search will turn something up.

Although I don't load for the .375, I think 4064 would be ok if it and 2400 were your slowest-burning options. Read Pdawg's sticky to get an idea of how several of us are selecting and using powders and coming up with safe starting loads.

Oh, and read Pdawg's sticky!

Gear

[Buckshot]

...........You certainly can get very good results shooting GG slugs that have been patched. LEFT: These are 577-450's with the Lee 457-405F 'as cast' and then patched with 20lb bond to give an OD of .472". RIGHT: 43 Spanish utilizing GG slugs which were reduced through a custom push through die and then patched. Slug on the left is a custom Mountain Moulds 420gr and the right one is the RCBS 43-370.




The 2nd & 3rd slugs from the left are patched GG slugs used in a .451" Whitworth long range muzzle loader. I've also re-sized 45 cal slugs, patched'em and shot them from my 45-90 and 45-70. These are generally cast of pure lead. I have a MAS36 bolt action converted to 45-70 and have shot pure lead patched slugs to 2100 fps with very fine accuracy.

..............Buckshot

[Any Cal.]

So can it be as easy as the sticky? Or does it end up being an eternal quest for every caliber? I would like MOA, out of a rifle that can likely do 1/2 MOA w/ jacketed, and at a reasonably fast velocity.

How critical is the core size? Does it have to be exact, or just bore +? Will an extra .001" give you grief?


Any other thoughts on the Lee 379-250 or Lyman 377-449 for a core mold?

Oh, Gear, were you saying that there is a chance of hitting the #s in the first post w/out PPing? If so, any pointers?

[Buckshot]

So can it be as easy as the sticky? Or does it end up being an eternal quest for every caliber?

Dunno about every caliber, but it'd be a good idea to slug the barrel of anything to see whatchagot!

I would like MOA,(Wouldn't that be nice?) out of a rifle that can likely do 1/2 MOA w/ jacketed, and at a reasonably fast velocity.

Reasonably is subjective. Horsepower, velocity, and accuracy all have a price tag.

How critical is the core size?

Should be +.001of the bore.

Does it have to be exact, or just bore +?

Bore + .001" is nice. Experimenting will tell in your firearm. What's your bore form? 50/50 lands and grooves, Mauser std, or?

Will an extra .001" give you grief?

Will it fit the throat? What's the throat in relation to the bore?


Any other thoughts on the Lee 379-250 or Lyman 377-449 for a core mold?

Oh, Gear, were you saying that there is a chance of hitting the #s in the first post w/out PPing? If so, any pointers?

.............Buckshot

[Any Cal.]

Alright, that's fair. The problem is that I don't know enough to ask the right questions.

I played with a very similar rifle that would do 7/16" 3shot groups @ 100yds w/ cheap jacketed Hornady, so am expecting +/- with this one... though don't know how involved it is getting cast or patched to shoot well in a rifle.

For shooting off the bench, though, I think the precision stuff will need to be spot-on, as less accuracy would show up instantly.

For shooting offhand, a bit less accuracy would be fine, the appeal is getting in the practice, and a 2 MOA or even a bit worse would be perfectly acceptable.

Still trying to get the measurements on it, my sinkers aren't working out and I threw away the cerrosafe so I wouldn't be tempted to use it again.

.

[Nobade]

If you have access to a set of pin gauges they are the way to measure a rifle's bore. Just be gentle with them and don't hurt anything. If you know any machinists you might ask if you could use their set for a few moments. As for the throat, Gear is right on - a pound impression works great and doesn't change over time so you can store it for future reference.

-Nobade

[Any Cal.]

Ok, after a bunch of attempts at measuring, I have a rough idea.

Chamber neck .408"
Throat .377" ish
Bore .368"
Groove .376"

My current plan is to order a .379 mold and a Lee .358 sizer, open the sizer to .368, and see what happens, initially over 2400. If groups are ok switch to another powder, if not play with sizing diameter. Thoughts?

[geargnasher]

Have a single-cavity aluminum mould cut by Accurate Molds to cast .370" with pure lead. Build the nose profile to fit your rifle's throat angle, and have some shallow "lube" grooves cut in the body to hold the patch and allow metal to displace.

If you can post a picture of a pound cast and measure the neck thickness of the brass you intend to use, we can get a better idea.

I'm thinking of compiling a "how-to" thread on pound castings and putting it up since it's somewhat difficult to find all the instructional posts that have been buried in threads in the past.

Gear

[Any Cal.]

Well, I can't swing the Accurate mold right now, so ordered the Lee mold and a .357 sizer to open up. With some better sized slugs I wil be able to get a better measurement of bore and throat, I hope, and will open the sizer up to whatever size I need. Hopefully will have more info in a week or so.

On an unrelated note, FSReloading has raised their prices and shipping costs, Midway is playing some games with shipping and their small purchase fee so I hate to buy from them, and Track of the Wolf had what I wanted in stock with a reasonable shipping price.Will have to see how things go with them.
..

[Any Cal.]

Alright! Got a box from Track of the Wolf... a new style Lee 379-250-RF, and a .357 sizer.

The mold had light between the halves, so I drifted the steel locating pins until they let the mold close. It won't locate properly unless there is about .002 between the halves, but the gap goes away when hot. The vent lines were nice and deep, the cavities were well cut w/ no flash. The only bad thing was the block-to-handle fit, it really needs some help... They use some Allen head screw nails, so you can pull the handles, but they need some shim stock or something. The head stripped on reinstallation, so I drifted them in and they work fine.

25 minutes or so with a drill and the sizer was a .365". Boolits sized through it will drop a few inches into the barrel, then need light taps to get through the middle third, then fall out. The rifling leaves light impressions all the way around the slug.

I cut up an old credit card for my pattern, and tried 2 wraps of tracing paper, 2 wraps of the craft paper I had mentioned, and 3 wraps of tracing paper. They are not totally dry yet, but the 2 tracing paper is like .372ish, 3 tracing paper .376, and 2 wraps of craft paper about .381. I may have to look for more paper if the 3 wraps don't work out.

I like the idea so far, I think I could do 100 boolits an hour between casting and wrapping, if they were jacketed that would be $50+. That is some motivation to find a combo that will shoot well. I am planning on trying with 16g 2400, and then using the best performers with a larger charge of 4064, the idea being to use less powder finding a good boolit, and hopefully keeping leading that does appear to a minimum. Comments?

[Nobade]

For the lighter charges I have found pillow stuffing (dacron) to work well to both hold the powder back and to protect the boolit's base. Up to normal cast boolit levels this seems to work. Beyond that, up to full rated power, progressive burning ball powder and granular filler is your friend.

-Nobade

[country gent]

Buffalo arms has a paper patched swaged boolit listed also. It is a true slick made to .366 dia and pure lead. Since the boolit dosnt touch the barrel only the paper not an issue. use 25% cotton rag paper I have helix brand from office max that works very well. .0025 thickness. So 2 wraps of paper add.010 to bullet dia + .366 = .376 or slightly less. I use a mixture of lee water souluable die lube mixed 2 to one with water 1 tube lee lube mixed with 2 tubes of water. Lightly dampen the patch with this mixture. I dip the tip of my finger in the mix and rub it into the patch set it aside lube another patch and roll the first one on a bullet. This gives the patch time to "normalize" with the moisture.

[Any Cal.]

I loaded up some of the tracing paper 3x boolits, but realized they shrunk to .372 after they dried. Will probably fire them off to see what they do, but am making more with some thicker craft paper wet wrapped tightly to see if it dries small enough. I am hoping to get the size right for a push fit in the fired case for easy loading, and thinking the diameter will be right for accuracy as well.

The patching processs is quicker with the template sorted out, but will definitely need to streamline the process if I want to do much of it. Maybe lube them when dry and store them so I can do them in larger batches.

I noticed you can tighten the patch by rolling the wrapped boolit down your pant leg, but it is a bit hard on the paper. Trying to wrap it very tight the first time now.

[Any Cal.]

Bleh, the craft paper still too thick. Rewrapped with some calligraphy paper, which is lousy to work with, wet strength is 0 almost instantly. Will see if these dry tight enough and the right size.

[Any Cal.]

Woo Hoo! Calligraphy paper dried to .367, twist-in fit to neck sized cases when lubed w/ JPW. Most of 8 rds went into about 1 1/2" @ 40 yds. Good enough to start bumping the loads up and see what I can get. No paper ring, a little blast of confetti, and the barrel seems clean aside from some powder fouling.

It could also be that my casting/patching needs to become more precise in order to get some better accuracy? May know more once I put a little more powder underneath them and see if they straighten out with more speed or distance, as well as a little more careful shooting.

[303Guy]

... Beyond that, up to full rated power, progressive burning ball powder and granular filler is your friend.

I'm beginning the think the granular filler is almost a requirement for progressive powders to ensure good burn. The granular filler reduces free case space but also resists flow out of the case which raises case pressure for better burn without placing the full pressure on the boolit base. I did tests with Grits and showed this to be so (which is not proof, just seems to hold out). For grits filler, the case shoulder needs to be reasonably shallow or a ring of the stuff can get left behind in the sharp shoulder and may also raise pressure too much and inconsistently. Shot buffer may be the answer.

[Any Cal.]

Picsher for lookin at... next to .223 for scale.

[303Guy]

Are these boolits seated to engage the rifling when chambered? Just to check on things you might pull one of them and check the patch condition. Unwrap it and check the core. You'd be looking for anything that might influence accuracy.

[Any Cal.]

??? They are a twist-fit in the case, so basically the same as they started. They seat slightly deeper when chambered, I guess because the nose is so blunt and the throat is only .001" over groove? I could probably seat them out if I didn't patch over the ogive, but thought that I was supposed to be.

I have some more loaded up w/ a bit more powder, the others may have only been doing 11-1200, thinking 14-1500 and then some at 2200 may give a better idea of what is happening.