Water droping questions ?

[Wayne S]

Trying to refresh my memory on the subject;

1. How long after dropping does it take for the bullet to reach full hardness?

2. At what point during the curing time should I size and lube without affecting the hardness?

3. How long can I store water dropped bullets? I have heard they soften with age?

4. Are there any amendments I can add to the water that can help? I seem to remember somebody say he adds a little aromatic ammonia helps ?
My aging brain housing group thanks you

Wayne

[Wayne Smith]

1) Depends on the alloy, adding arsenic changes things. Generally within a month from casting the changes slow to the point that it doesn't matter.

2) I size and lube the same day as casting - it's easier! Also any changes occur after I size and I don't worry about later sizing changing anything, likely or no.

3) I remember someone posting that boolits stored for years changed very slowly - I wouldn't worry if you are old enough to have memory problems!

4) I don't remember that - it's the quick cooling that makes the difference.

[sqlbullet]

1. Generally a couple of weeks is considered good enough. My testing shows the majority of the hardening is done in a month, but with my alloy (isotope lead) there is some additional increase over longer periods. It is negligible after a month or so.

2. As soon as possible.

3. Depends on the alloy, the temp of the lead, and the temp at which they are quenched. For WW/Isotope lead a good rule of thumb is that 22-24 will be stable. If they are under that value, they will probably harden some over time, and if they are over that value they will soften. With enough time, water dropped isotope lead will end up between 22 and 24.

4. News to me.

[runfiverun]

about a month i like to give them more.
i try and size/check them within a week.
10 years should be long enough for storage but i wouldn't be scared to try for 20.

i just add more water or some snow if i am doing big boolits like 45/70's.
they will heat up a gallon of water.
5 gallons i wouldn't worry about.

[felix]

Long and skinny boolits for BR work REQUIRE about FULL hardness before sizing the night before shooting when loading in advance of the shoot. Otherwise, size and load at the bench. ... felix

[Wayne S]

Felix, Doesn't sizing AFTER FULL hardness cause the outsides of the driving bands to return to or near their original hardness ??

[felix]

Yes, plus any under the surface that was moved, but not necessarily sheered, does too. However, it's a very slow progression and won't be seen by the barrel within a day or so. ... felix

[paul h]

1) Depends on the alloy, adding arsenic changes things. Generally within a month from casting the changes slow to the point that it doesn't matter.

2) I size and lube the same day as casting - it's easier! Also any changes occur after I size and I don't worry about later sizing changing anything, likely or no.

3) I remember someone posting that boolits stored for years changed very slowly - I wouldn't worry if you are old enough to have memory problems!

4) I don't remember that - it's the quick cooling that makes the difference.

What he said!

As to #4, I've heard of people adding snow to the bucket so the water is at 32F, but no hard ice cubes to damage the bullets upon hitting. One could add salt and make a brine that would be colder than freezing ~28F.

That said I've found more often than not air cooled ww's do the trick for most of my shooting better than quenched and I haven't water quenched for years.

[44man]

I water drop about everything, even pure round balls. The reason is room on my bench in the garage. Then my harder boolits shoot better for me in my revolvers.
I don't worry much about time and a few days has worked for me as they get hard enough to resist sizing in the brass. They continue to get hard and most of the time they sit in boxes anyway before I load. I never worry about how cold water is either, summer or winter.
I am lazy and just do things the easy way because I never see any variation in how they shoot. I don't time to drop or anything, it just is not that important. Boolits are hot enough to speed up hardening and a point or two of BHN is nothing to fret over.
Oven hardening is too much work but works best with a 50-50 alloy without changing ductile qualities.
I really think too many go to too much work that will not show up at the target. Towels in buckets, etc, mean nothing, just drop the boolits in a 5 gal bucket of water.

[Maven]

Yes, plus any under the surface that was moved, but not necessarily sheered, does too. However, it's a very slow progression and won't be seen by the barrel within a day or so. ... felix

Felix is correct, as usual, about this. In fact, metallurgist Dennis Marshall described and illustrated this phenomenon in an article in either the NRA book on CB's or Lyman's 3rd edition of the CB Handbook. It's a fact we often ignore, so I'm glad it was brought up.

[khmer6]

I water drop all my bullets. I add ice to the mix cuz here in sunny Arizona it gets hot quick. A nice towel to catch the bullets and prevent splashing water up into the mold or worse the pot. Boolits came out pretty hard. I could squeeze a lot of commercial "hardcast" with some plumbers plyers and get deformation pretty deep. These ones that were after a week it barely scratched it.

[Larry Gibson]

I'm like 44man.....like to do things the easy way. I WQ mostly because I want to use the bullets the next day or two. I also WQ some heavy larger caliber that I push fast for big bore practice. I useually let the WQ'd bullets age 24 hours before size/lubing and seating the GC. The Hardening isn't just to strnghten the driving bands which many think. It's best purpose is the hardening bullet body to better resist uneven slumping, set back and unwanted obturation during accelleration; i.e. the hardening helps maintain the bullets shape better during accelleration.

I use a 5 gal bucket with 3+ gal cold tap water for the large bullets and a coffee can 2/3 full of tap water for the really small ones like the .22s. I set the buckets to my right side with the top at waiste level. I pour, break off the sprue turn and knock the bullets out into the bucket. I don't worry about water on the mould because I've learned it sizzles off long before the mould is closed. For best hardening and most consistency I cast hotter, cut the sprue as soon as the alloy hardens and get the bullet into the water as quickly as possible. To keep the mould from getting too hot I often work two moulds of different caliber (for easy sorting).

Larry Gibson

[Shuz]

Felix is correct, as usual, about this. In fact, metallurgist Dennis Marshall described and illustrated this phenomenon in an article in either the NRA book on CB's or Lyman's 3rd edition of the CB Handbook. It's a fact we often ignore, so I'm glad it was brought up.

An article by the metallurgist Dennis Marshall mentioned by Maven, can also be found on page 28 of the RCBS "Cast Bullet Manuel" number 1. I highly recommend reading this article even tho I'm not a metallurgist, nor do I play one on TV!

[Hondo 60]

3. How long can I store water dropped bullets? I have heard they soften with age?

I read that too.
I also read that if you store 'em in the freezer, they don't soften.

I have no idea whether it's true or not.
And NO, it does NOT have to be true if it's on the internet.

[44man]

Lot's of stuff not worth the work, like freezers, etc. There is just so little difference in the boolits
I set my bucket on a short stool on the floor to my left. I just turn and dump. It is the right height so I don't need to bend my old, creaky body!

[runfiverun]

freezing them slows down the hardening affects.
how much tin is in the mix has an affect on the hardening also.