Starter Progressive Press??

[Alvarez Kelly]

Here is a current price comparison. If anyone knows of the 650 having a current on sale price, please let me know. LNL AP price listed includes one shell plate. I assume the 650 comes with one shell plate. Dies and components should be the only additional costs.

LNL AP $440 + 500 free bullets, depending on bullet selected, a $117 to $160 value at the pre-panic prices.
LNL AP Total $280-$323 Sounds like a bargain and an even better one if you sell your free bullets online or at a show.

XL650 $566

So cheap is good? I don't follow the resale value of Hornady products, but I have never lost a dime on any Dillon products owned more than a few years. A Square Deal bought at retail 10 to 15 years ago can now be sold for a nice profit. Same with the 450s, 550s, all the 1050s, and even the RL300!

Life cycle costs are just as important as initial costs. Think trade in value on a used car... Do you want a Hyundai or a Honda?

[johnnybar]

If you read the original post, he was concerned about dollars.

You seemed to be sincerely concerned about economy before prices were posted.

Now....

So cheap is good? I don't follow the resale value of Hornady products, but I have never lost a dime on any Dillon products owned more than a few years. A Square Deal bought at retail 10 to 15 years ago can now be sold for a nice profit. Same with the 450s, 550s, all the 1050s, and even the RL300!

Life cycle costs are just as important as initial costs. Think trade in value on a used car... Do you want a Hyundai or a Honda?

On value, why not do a little home work before jumping into this subject matter? It will only take a little longer than the post you just made. Oh well, I'll save you the effort. Not too many used LNL's to get current resale on but, I did find 4 basic AP units that sold from $490 to $560. Remember the new press cost?...$280-$323. I guess not too many are letting them go....hmmm. When looking at the facts, I just don't see the down side my friend.

OP,
As many have stated, they will all roll loads. Just look at the features and invest in the ones you want and can afford with both eyes open and your CPU online. Most importantly, have fun regardless of what you bolt to the bench. That's really what it's all about!

[johnnybar]

I don't think a person new to reloading should be near a progressive. A person new to a progressive should load a single case at a time until he is comfortable with what happens at each station. Understand what moves, what is done, and how. Having many things happening at once is tough to keep an eye on at first. Safety first.

I'm not 100% sure about Dillons, but I believe all progressives can be single case cycled for a learning curve that can last as long as needed. Primers will remain in the anvil cup and powder will not drop unless a case is present. Regardless of press used, a mentor is always a good idea for beginners whether they are 15 or 50.

[Lloyd Smale]

Im with btoj on this. I dont think auto or mechanical advance means a pinch of difference in saftey and ive personaly loaded for 35 years and probably 25 of those on progressive presses and never saw any need to spend good money on a powder check as long as i have eyes. Problems crop up with either design when your trying to see how many rounds of ammo you can make in an hour. Slow down and make 50 less and watch what your doing and either design is VERY reliable and safe. A guy will fill a case block of pistol shells with a powder dump and not use a powder check to make sure every one is filled properly. You use your eyes to tell. Bottom line is in all my years of loading on progressives ive never seen an improperly charged case if i was using proper powders for progressive loading (ie ball powders) I NEVER use stick powders when progressively loading.

Bottom line is a 550 is as safe as anything other loading too. If it wasnt do your really think in this day of frivilous lawsuits that dillon would still make it and dont you think if they really thought a powder check die was the answer to this non problem theyd install one from the factory and make you pay for it in the cost to cover there asses. Id bet my bottom dollar that if even one person had ever got hurt and filed suit against dillon we all would know about it.

Why manual advance? Because I am in control of when it moves a case. Same reason i don't like powder check dies.
Reliance on a mechanical device can lead to complacency.
Sort of like people who wave around loaded guns with the safety on. I don't trust a mechanical device, I trust ME.

I don't think a person new to reloading should be near a progressive. A person new to a progressive should load a single case at a time until he is comfortable with what happens at each station. Understand what moves, what is done, and how. Having many things happening at once is tough to keep an eye on at first. Safety first.

[Alvarez Kelly]

This statement:

I did find 4 basic AP units that sold from $490 to $560.

Makes me question this:

Remember the new press cost?...$280-$323

So, which is it? Where can you buy a LnL for $280? I might buy one for that just to play with it.

[johnnybar]

This statement:



Makes me question this:



So, which is it? Where can you buy a LnL for $280? I might buy one for that just to play with it.

A'K',
Try going back and reading the post for the "current price comparison". You quoted it in your #61 post. With their huge presence in ammunition and component manufacturing, Hornady is able to offer package deals that others can't match. Heck, when I bought my AP, I got 1000 free XTP bullets! My press was a big time bargain! Please spend a little time using your favorite search engine and verify any information posted by others that appears doubtful. Try looking at a couple of the most well known auction sites for used prices and some of the well known retailers new prices and rebates. Forum policy does not allow posting of links to them. If you still aren't able to find the pricing and you are sincerely wanting it, PM your email and I will get you fixed up. Good Shootin' jb

[Alvarez Kelly]

A'K',
Try going back and reading the post for the "current price comparison". You quoted it in your #61 post. With their huge presence in ammunition and component manufacturing, Hornady is able to offer package deals that others can't match. Heck, when I bought my AP, I got 1000 free XTP bullets! My press was a big time bargain! Please spend a little time using your favorite search engine and verify any information posted by others that appears doubtful. Try looking at a couple of the most well known auction sites for used prices and some of the well known retailers new prices and rebates. Forum policy does not allow posting of links to them. If you still aren't able to find the pricing and you are sincerely wanting it, PM your email and I will get you fixed up. Good Shootin' jb

I guess I see your point now. You valued the jacketed bullets as a way to reduce the overall cost of the press. Since I load cast boolits, those jacketed ones have little value to me.

I was excited for a minute there. I was willing to buy a LnL for $280 just to play with it!

[johnnybar]

I guess I see your point now. You valued the jacketed bullets as a way to reduce the overall cost of the press. Since I load cast boolits, those jacketed ones have little value to me.

I was excited for a minute there. I was willing to buy a LnL for $280 just to play with it!

You can! The bullets have value to thousands and thousands of reloaders and shop owners willing to pay premium prices for them. I kept my 1000 XTP's as that is what I shot in my 44 mag hot loads and experimented with in several muzzleloaders using sabots. But, any time I want to sell the remaining boxes, they are like money in the bank.

[colt1960]

I bought a dillon 450 for my starting press, later sold it for more than I paid. upgraded to the dillon 550b. Dillon is the best in my book. I also use a RCBS Rock Chucker for anything I do with a single stage. Good luck with whatever you end up with! Rick.

[-Mischief]

Well, I thank all of you for the overwhelming response! It looks like I'll have an initial expense $1300-1400 for a 650 with the shell plates, die sets, trays, etc that I'll need for the cartidges I currently load...which are 9mm, 40 sw, 45 acp, 223, 257 wby and 6.5x284 norma. I'll load my BR stuff on my chucker.

[A pause for the COZ]

I guess I see your point now. You valued the jacketed bullets as a way to reduce the overall cost of the press. Since I load cast boolits, those jacketed ones have little value to me.

I was excited for a minute there. I was willing to buy a LnL for $280 just to play with it!

You could buy the press and order the 500 bullets, then sell the projectiles.
I just purchased 500 nice Hornady 150 gr 3031's for a $100 from some one who obviously just got a LNL AP. 100 bucks is a 100 bucks.

[hiram1]

Buy a DILLON and cry only one time.It cost a little more but well worth it in the long run.and makes good rounds.I love the ones i have.

[johnnybar]

I would be tickled to open red or blue on christmas morning. But if it were coming out of my pocket and I knew all the factual differences posted in this thread, I would go red every time. Again both great presses, just some major and minor differences. Then there's the credit card whammy on the blue choice that just isn't there with red. I guestimate that the LNL AP can be set up for approx half of your Dillon total. Shell plates are $32 and die bushings run about $4 each. IIRC LNL can dump up to 75 gr of powder and 650 can go to around 55 gr. Over that, an additional powder bar is required for the dillon press. The LNL powder measure is the gold standard designed by RCBS and Redding. The LNL powder linkage works so well that RCBS bought rights from Hornady and uses it on RCBS presses. That $100 bargain price for the sold bullets posted above is a bargain today at 20 cents per bullet and a sure bet to sell immediately. That brings the AP down to $307. 2 or 3 extra shellplates...add $65 - $100. Dies are pretty much equal $$ depending on preferred brand. So we are back to $407 + dies/bushings. That's a long way from your blue price.
Have fun either way and Good Shootin' !
jb

[DCM]

Buy a DILLON and cry only one time.It cost a little more but well worth it in the long run.and makes good rounds.I love the ones i have.

Big +1 on that!
I had a big red H progressive that caused me to get something much more reliable and repeatable in blue.

If you are looking for a starter progressive try a Lee, it will be less than 1/2 the cost of the Hornady.

[jack007]

I have had years worth of good luck with a xl 650. I have been told lee works well but have not used one.

[RoGrrr]

Mischief
I disagree with David on " Let the amount of reloading you do be your guide"
Buy the Dillon 650 and load to your heart's content. You'll find that you will shoot more and enjoy it more. What you are doing is better than putting $$$$ in the bank.
What really bothers me is his attitude on QUANTITY. Buy the 650 for the HOBBY ENJOYMENT you WILL get out of it. It's not about quantity. It's called QUALITY. You will crank out more ammo than you would be willing to enjoy, just bcuz you can enjoy reloading. As my good friend, Rush says, something about "more fun than a human being should be allowed to have" !
IF (not when) you ever tire of shooting/reloading you can sell it for AT LEAST AS MUCH as you paid for it.
The 650 was my first progressive metallic loader and I do not regret it one bit. Yes, I considered it to be an entry level progressive, especially after reading all the diatribe on many boards. I've loaded well over 10,000 in the year I've had it and am thinking about buying another one in a different caliber just so I don't have to change anything.
I like the AUTO-INDEXING of the 650, which is why I bought it rather than the 550. As Kull said, "Auto index gives the (relatively) new reloader one less thing to worry about". There is almost no worry about a double charge with auto-index.
Also, it allows for the powder check option, not that it's really needed but is a neat "feel-good" feature. BTW, I bought mine used and it has ALL the options. I think I paid about 90% of retail new price but it also was set up to load 2 other calibers which I shoot - convenient for me in the long run; all the dies, primer feeders, shell plates and powder measures for them. It also has the auto case feeder which makes things go so smoothly and incredibly FAST. I was under $2K for all I got and don't regret anything. Yes, I would do it again. Basically a turn-key operation with ALL the options/bells/whistles/handles/mounts one could want for all 3 calibers.
johnnybar says:
HORNADY has equal customer service. I say that Dillon's NO BS customer service (which I have used several times. Things break, you know) and never having to pay for any replacement parts is somewhat of a plus. Besides, if they make any mods, you get them, too ! Granted, I have never loaded on a Hornady but I would try one if given the chance.
I still like what the Dillon shows me. I had loaded plenty of shotshells on progressives, going back 50 years and learned that precision loaders (TEXAN and Ljutic shotshell loaders) were quite valuable. I'd loaded on those chevy/ford-type loaders (MEC) but graduated to Texans and Ljutic and never looked back. That's why I decided to take the plunge to the Dillon. Love 'em and have no regrets. However, I won't belittle the LNL and their fans. Whichever one you buy, (you'll) be happy with it and shoot MORE !

I'm RoGrrr and I MORE THAN approve this message.
BTW, Us people who use Dillon loaders don't bite. We SHOOT !

[-Mischief]

I hope their customer service is better than their sales service! I called and called and called them Friday and Saturday, ended up leaving 2 messages...then sent them an email through their site...still no reply or call!

[RoGrrr]

The manufacturers being discussed are Dillon, Hornady and Lee. So who was it you called ?

I hope their customer service is better than their sales service! I called and called and called them Friday and Saturday, ended up leaving 2 messages...then sent them an email through their site...still no reply or call!

[-Mischief]

Sorry...Dillon. I'm going to go with a 650

[RoGrrr]

Mischief
I'm confident you will be more than satisfied with your Dillon 650.
As mentioned, I bought mine used and as I started setting it up I found a couple minor parts that were either worn or broken and I didn't have to justify ANYTHING for them to offer to send replacements. I was wondering why they were so friendly and easy to deal with. I was just not ready for their NO BS policy but I find it's something that they are built around. I had some other questions which they promptly and happily answered.
I'm not sure why you didn't get an anyone to answer their fone. It would be neat if they had a cute number, something like 1-800-dillon but....
Orders/expert assistance - 800-223-4570
Order status/basic orders - 800-762-3845
catalog requests - 800-762-3844 (and all their catalogs have attractive models on the covers)

You might also update your user CPT and tell us what state you're in. Inquiring minds want to k now.